Discussion:
Looking to move towards light backpacking but want to maintain some comfort
Chris Gilmore
2012-04-14 21:18:45 UTC
Permalink
OK folks be kind, i'm slowly moving towards  ultra light with a short stop (1 season) in light as I evaluate which gear I can do without and what gear needs to be replaced. Please provide feedback on what you think can be left behind or what should be swapped out first. 

-On My Person  4 lb 6.7 oz
Knife- 11.8 oz (1
lbs 10.9 oz total)
Sheath
& Pouch
Sharpener
Survival
Kit & Cord
Whistle
on lanyard
Fire
Steel
Compass- 3.6 oz
Mini First Aid Kit-
2.3 oz
Baseball Cap- 4 oz
Sunglasses- 2 oz
Belt-  3 oz
Hiking Boots-  27 oz
 
-Food Canister- 41 oz (10 lbs
total)
Jerky
- 12 oz
Snack
Sack - 3 lbs
Starburst
- done
Snack
bars - done
Electrolytes
-done
Gatorade
-done
Crystal
Lite -done
Apple
Cider -done
Gum
-done
Dried
Fruit
Peanut
Butter ?
Entrées
Breakfast
Oatmeal
Lunch
- 4.3 oz ea
Dinner
- 4.3 oz ea.
 
9:30 PM
-Main Compartment - 412.6 oz/25
lbs11.9 oz
Sleeping bag liner-
4.5 oz
OR Bivy Sack- 30.5
oz  (1lbs 14.8 oz)
Sleeping bag- 52 oz
Compression
Sack- 3.5 oz
Exped Pillow- 3.6 oz
Thermarest Pad- 24
oz (1 lbs 9.2 oz)
Stove- 3 oz
Gas
Qty. 2 - 26 oz
Camp
dishes- 18 oz (1 lbs 2.9oz)
Camp
Utensils -
First Aid Kit - 1
lbs 4.9 oz
MSR Water Filter -
14.9 oz
Shovel- 28 oz (1 lbs
11.3 oz)
Gregory Z65 pack- 67
oz
Water
Bladder (full)- 110 oz
Lumbar Day pack?- 14
oz
Water Straw- 1.5 oz
Camp Towel- .9
 Trash
compacter bag -
 
-Tech
iPhone - 4.7 oz
iPhone
Charger -
iPhone
Cable - .5 oz
Walkie Talkie(s) -7
oz

-Clothes Stuff Sack - 5lbs
Socks
Underwear
Shirt
Shorts/Pants
Jacket  2 lbs 9 oz & Pullover
Gloves &
Stocking Cap
 
-Hygiene  -Front Pouch - 1 lbs 7 oz
Wipes - 7 oz
Toothbrush  - 1 oz
Tooth paste  - .75 oz
Map Pouch & Map
- 8 oz
 
-Supplies  - Orange -
3lbs
Survival Kit
Soft Water Bottle(s)
Head Light
Flash Light
Extra Dry Bag
Batteries
Straps
Stakes Qty. 5
Fire Tinder
Hand sanitizer
(accelerant)
Tape
Multi-tool
550 Cord  - 8 oz
Camp Soap 
-On My Person  4 lb 6.7 oz
Knife- 11.8 oz (1
lbs 10.9 oz total)
Sheath
& Pouch
Sharpener
Survival
Kit & Cord
Whistle
on lanyard
Fire
Steel
Compass- 3.6 oz
Mini First Aid Kit-
2.3 oz
Baseball Cap- 4 oz
Sunglasses- 2 oz
Belt-  3 oz
Hiking Boots-  27 oz
 
-Food Canister- 41 oz (10 lbs
total)
Jerky
- 12 oz
Snack
Sack - 3 lbs
Starburst
- done
Snack
bars - done
Electrolytes
-done
Gatorade
-done
Crystal
Lite -done
Apple
Cider -done
Gum
-done
Dried
Fruit
Peanut
Butter ?
Entrées
Breakfast
Oatmeal 
Chris Gilmore
(408) 461-1380
John Smith
2012-04-16 02:44:43 UTC
Permalink
Chris,

There are several things I would do to eliminate duplicated items:

1) I would eliminate the belt and replace it with a braided paracord one if I felt the need to have paracord at all.
2) I would eliminate the shovel and replace it with a plastic trowel if I was going to bring one at all (I use an Easton 9" tent stake, to dig cat holes for example)
3) I would eliminate the knife or the multi-tool.  I would eliminate the sharpener completely.  I have never used one and never felt the need as long as I started each trip wit ha sharp knife.

4) Depending on length of trip I would eliminate some fuel (52 oz is a lot)
5) I would thin out the first aid kit.  Seems rather heavy unless you are the medic for a large camping group.
6) Consider using a stuff sack for a pillow.
7) Lumbar day pack can be tossed. You already are bringing a backpack. Just carry it emptier when moving out from base camp.

After each trip I would also put everything I used in a pile and the stuff I did not in another pile. I would question every single item from the unused pile before I carried it ever again.  Every item from the used pile needs to be scrutinized the same way to find items that might serve dual purposes and eliminate an item or see if you can eliminate them altogether. 


I still carry items I almost never use (some first aid items) but I have also found that the more experience i gain the less I need to carry.  Eachpersonhas to come to that point on their own but the philosophy of going lightweight is the same for all of us.  Question everything. Weigh everything. Find items that serve multi-purposes and get out and use it.  If you don't use it then eliminate it.

Good luck, Happy


john the xcar






________________________________
From: Chris Gilmore <chris_gilmore2001-/***@public.gmane.org>
To: "BackpackingLight-***@public.gmane.org" <BackpackingLight-***@public.gmane.org>
Cc: Chris Gilmore <chris_gilmore2001-/***@public.gmane.org>
Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2012 2:18 PM
Subject: [BackpackingLight] Looking to move towards light backpacking but want to maintain some comfort


 
OK folks be kind, i'm slowly moving towards  ultra light with a short stop (1 season) in light as I evaluate which gear I can do without and what gear needs to be replaced. Please provide feedback on what you think can be left behind or what should be swapped out first. 

-On My Person  4 lb 6.7 oz
Knife- 11.8 oz (1
lbs 10.9 oz total)
Sheath
& Pouch
Sharpener
Survival
Kit & Cord
Whistle
on lanyard
Fire
Steel
Compass- 3.6 oz
Mini First Aid Kit-
2.3 oz
Baseball Cap- 4 oz
Sunglasses- 2 oz
Belt-  3 oz
Hiking Boots-  27 oz
 
-Food Canister- 41 oz (10 lbs
total)
Jerky
- 12 oz
Snack
Sack - 3 lbs
Starburst
- done
Snack
bars - done
Electrolytes
-done
Gatorade
-done
Crystal
Lite -done
Apple
Cider -done
Gum
-done
Dried
Fruit
Peanut
Butter ?
Entrées
Breakfast
Oatmeal
Lunch
- 4.3 oz ea
Dinner
- 4.3 oz ea.
 
9:30 PM
-Main Compartment - 412.6 oz/25
lbs11.9 oz
Sleeping bag liner-
4.5 oz
OR Bivy Sack- 30.5
oz  (1lbs 14.8 oz)
Sleeping bag- 52 oz
Compression
Sack- 3.5 oz
Exped Pillow- 3.6 oz
Thermarest Pad- 24
oz (1 lbs 9.2 oz)
Stove- 3 oz
Gas
Qty. 2 - 26 oz
Camp
dishes- 18 oz (1 lbs 2.9oz)
Camp
Utensils -
First Aid Kit - 1
lbs 4.9 oz
MSR Water Filter -
14.9 oz
Shovel- 28 oz (1 lbs
11.3 oz)
Gregory Z65 pack- 67
oz
Water
Bladder (full)- 110 oz
Lumbar Day pack?- 14
oz
Water Straw- 1.5 oz
Camp Towel- .9
 Trash
compacter bag -
 
-Tech
iPhone - 4.7 oz
iPhone
Charger -
iPhone
Cable - .5 oz
Walkie Talkie(s) -7
oz

-Clothes Stuff Sack - 5lbs
Socks
Underwear
Shirt
Shorts/Pants
Jacket  2 lbs 9 oz & Pullover
Gloves &
Stocking Cap
 
-Hygiene  -Front Pouch - 1 lbs 7 oz
Wipes - 7 oz
Toothbrush  - 1 oz
Tooth paste  - .75 oz
Map Pouch & Map
- 8 oz
 
-Supplies  - Orange -
3lbs
Survival Kit
Soft Water Bottle(s)
Head Light
Flash Light
Extra Dry Bag
Batteries
Straps
Stakes Qty. 5
Fire Tinder
Hand sanitizer
(accelerant)
Tape
Multi-tool
550 Cord  - 8 oz
Camp Soap 
-On My Person  4 lb 6.7 oz
Knife- 11.8 oz (1
lbs 10.9 oz total)
Sheath
& Pouch
Sharpener
Survival
Kit & Cord
Whistle
on lanyard
Fire
Steel
Compass- 3.6 oz
Mini First Aid Kit-
2.3 oz
Baseball Cap- 4 oz
Sunglasses- 2 oz
Belt-  3 oz
Hiking Boots-  27 oz
 
-Food Canister- 41 oz (10 lbs
total)
Jerky
- 12 oz
Snack
Sack - 3 lbs
Starburst
- done
Snack
bars - done
Electrolytes
-done
Gatorade
-done
Crystal
Lite -done
Apple
Cider -done
Gum
-done
Dried
Fruit
Peanut
Butter ?
Entrées
Breakfast
Oatmeal 
Chris Gilmore
(408) 461-1380
Eric Green
2012-04-16 03:24:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Smith
2) I would eliminate the shovel and replace it with a plastic trowel if I was going to bring one at all (I use an Easton 9" tent stake, to dig cat holes for example)
A word here. I have a plastic trowel from Major Outdoor Retailer. I have a metal gardening trowel from K-Mart. I weighed each one. Guess which one was lighter? (Hint: It wasn't the plastic trowel from Major Outdoor Retailer). Major Outdoor Retailer also has a folding metal trowel. Again, guess which metal trowel is lighter? (Hint: It' s not the one from Major Outdoor Retailer).

I do agree that the shovel is a "WTF?!" thing. My little K-Mart trowel has sufficed for all digging I've ever needed to do, including some fairly righteous catholes.
Post by John Smith
3) I would eliminate the knife or the multi-tool.
I have a tiny little Leatherman one that has scissors, the Leatherman Micra, because I've needed scissors far more often than a knife to cut cord and open packages and have *never* needed pliers on the trail. It weighs under 2 ounces.
Post by John Smith
I would eliminate the sharpener completely.
This is a WTF one. Get a good quality knife like a Leatherman, not cheap Chinese steel from Wally World, and you'll need to sharpen it maybe once a year. If that. I've owned mine for several years and never sharpened it. You're opening plastic food pouches and cutting nylon cord with the thing, for cryin' out loud, not whittling wood or digging thru rock with it!
Post by John Smith
6) Consider using a stuff sack for a pillow.
Another WTF. A stuff sack with whatever layers you're not wearing in it makes for a fine pillow, and when you wake up in the morning it's going to be somewhat warm from having your head resting on it all night, instead of ice cold when you want to put it on to leave your sleeping bag to make your morning coffee.
Post by John Smith
7) Lumbar day pack can be tossed. You already are bringing a backpack. Just carry it emptier when moving out from base camp.
Or carry a smaller/lighter backpack, and a fanny pack to take the stuff that you'd normally take day-hiking, and wear both at the same time. Leave the backpack at camp when you day-hike from your base camp. A little heavier than the alternative of a slightly larger backpack, but many ultralight backpacks don't carry well if they're partially loaded. My old GVP G4 feels like a lumpy rucksack if it's not fully stuffed, for example -- it was designed to have your uncompressed sleeping bag filling up any empty volume to give it shape, and doesn't really work well without that.

Not that I do this. One advantage of going ultralight is that it's not really much of a chore to break camp and head on out. You're not carrying much stuff, so there's not much to pack up. Ultralight tents are generally single-wall tents where you simply pop out the stakes, pull out the pole, and stuff the result into the stuff sack (same deal if you're using a tarp to keep the dew off of you), rather than have to deal with unclipping layers and such, so they go zip zip zip into the bag. Some ultralight backpacks like my old G4 are designed to hold the sleeping bag unstuffed, so just push it down into your highly water resistant bag liner (heavy duty compactor bag) then dump everything else on top of it. If it takes you more than 15 minutes to break camp, you're doing it wrong, the thing that takes the most time for me is deflating my air mattress, and that's a case of me being a wus (I simply can't sleep on a Z-rest or other such sleeping pad, so I use the Z-rest segments that provide some padding/shape for the GG packs for my feet and a shorty air mattress for my torso), otherwise it'd just be a case of me pushing the pad into the appropriate compartment on my backpack. So anyhow, the net result is that I simply don't base camp anymore, I toss everything back into my backpack and go somewhere else to camp that evening.
Cara Lin Bridgman
2012-04-16 07:49:56 UTC
Permalink
For the first few years of hiking (late 1980s early 1990s), I had a data
sheet I filled out of equipment carried and whether it was used or not.
This really helped me dump a lot of weight.

CL
who added that weight back in with radio-transmitters, radio-receivers,
and batteries.
Post by John Smith
After each trip I would also put everything I used in a pile and the
stuff I did not in another pile. I would question every single item from
the unused pile before I carried it ever again. Every item from the
used pile needs to be scrutinized the same way to find items that might
serve dual purposes and eliminate an item or see if you can eliminate
them altogether.
I still carry items I almost never use (some first aid items) but I have
also found that the more experience i gain the less I need to carry.
Eachpersonhas to come to that point on their own but the philosophy of
going lightweight is the same for all of us. Question everything. Weigh
everything. Find items that serve multi-purposes and get out and use
it. If you don't use it then eliminate it.
Cara Lin Bridgman
2012-04-16 04:44:43 UTC
Permalink
Chris,

That's a whacking big knife. Even if you carry the knife, you do not
have to carry the sharpener. You can keep that at home or in your
bounce box. If you really must sharpen the knife in the field, there's
always going to be a rock. Since you're only carrying 5 days worth of
food, you probably will not need to sharpen your knife.

Since you're carrying a knife, you might be able to lighten some weight
by removing the striker from your fire steel.

In this group, we like to see the details of your first aid kit. There
may be some redundancy there with the rest of your gear. Also, how much
of that stuff do you really know how to use or really would use? Me? I
quit carrying band-aids and bandages a long time ago: there's usually
bandannas, cloth, and TP for that sort of thing. None are the most
sanitary of options, but when we have an accident in the field, nothing
is that sanitary, anyway.

As your pack lightens, you may find you can also ditch the boots for
something lighter.

The problem with things like peanut butter is ensuring they get into
their container and STAY in their container. They tend to be really
insidious about sneaking out and spreading themselves all over pack
contents.

You can probably use your bivy sac as a bag for your sleeping bag. 3.5
oz for a compression sac is a lot.

How much cooking are you going to do? From your food list, you only
need to heat water for oatmeal and your pre-packaged lunch and dinner
(can you remove some of the packaging). Do you really need two gas
canisters for this? We've discussions on this list on how to keep track
of fuel use rates and amount of fuel remaining inside a gas can.

How about some details on your camp dishes. 1 lb, 9 oz sounds like an
awful lot of dishes. For most of us, our cooking pot, plate, bowl, and
cup are all the same thing. What sorts of utensils. Usually, all
that's needed is a spoon.

What's the difference between your mini first aid kit and your first aid
kit (1 lb 4.9 oz). That's a huge amount of first aid kit!

Most of us use a boot heel, a tent stake, our walking stick, hands,
handy rock to do whatever a 28 oz shovel can do. I've not carried a
shovel in years!

Can't you just use one of your stuffsacks for a daypack? 14 oz just for
a daypack is heavy. Most of us would just stuff everything into the
bivy sac and use the empty pack as the daypack.

Is the water straw some sort of fancy filtration thing? If so, why do
you carry a 14.9 oz filter. This sort of redundancy can be removed. If
you need a back-up, there are plenty of lighter-weight options
(including boiling with found fuel).

Phone charger and cable can go in your bounce box.

I can hear recommendations to take one: phone OR walkie-talkie. It
really depends on where you are going to be. Some of us on this list
still go hiking without either.

5lbs of clothes? Here, too, more detail would be better. How many
pairs of underwear and what sort? If you're talking boxer shorts and
panties ... well ... many of us do without. How many of these clothes
will you actually have 'On My Person'?

What's the difference between your survival kit and all the stuff you've
already listed (knife, fire starter, mini and huge first aid kits, water
filters, camp towels...)?

Do you need a headlight AND a flashlight? Most of us make do with one
and go for the lightest we can find. It's not like we're trying to
spot-light flying squirrel at night.

How redundant is your knife with your multi-tool? Maybe you only need
the multi-tool. Do you use everything on that multi-tool? Maybe you
can take a smaller multi-tool.

How much cord do you already have incorporated into your tarp?
Sometimes you need extra cord for bear bagging. Sometimes you can just
use the cord from your tarp for whatever else you might want to use cord
for.

Your list gets confusing because you have listed 'On My Person' and
'Food Canister' twice.

There are lots of ways to reduce your weight without having to even buy
anything! You've gone ultralight on your shelter (bivy sac) and rather
heavy on sleep comfort (heavy bag, plus pillow, liner, sleeping mat). A
lot of this has to do with priorities. As you lighten up your gear, you
can consider buying lighter-weight replacements for some of your sleep
system and for your pack.

A lot of lightening up has to do with removing redundancies and looking
at ways your current gear can replace something else (e.g. boot heels
can replace potty trowels). On the other hand, some redundancy can make
a huge difference in hiking and camping comfort and enjoyment. I take a
tent, rain coat, and umbrella. The umbrella is redundant with my tent
and with my rain coat, but it sure makes a difference in comfort when
hiking in the rain and when putzing around camp in the rain. I don't
carry camp sandals or river crossing sandals, but lots of people on this
list do. So, there's a whole lot of variation in gear and a whole of
variation in priorities!

CL
who still carries too much...
Robin Joy
2012-04-16 05:28:57 UTC
Permalink
No need to tell you there are many web sites that have lists for ultra light weight backpacking. Mine weights 35lbs. for 10 days with food and a Sling Light Chair I am 63 and my sitting comfort is very important.
OK folks be kind, i'm slowly moving towards ultra light with a short stop (1 season) in light as I evaluate which gear I can do without and what gear needs to be replaced. Please provide feedback on what you think can be left behind or what should be swapped out first.
-On My Person 4 lb 6.7 oz
Knife- 11.8 oz (1 lbs 10.9 oz total)
Sheath & Pouch
Sharpener
Survival Kit & Cord
Whistle on lanyard
Fire Steel
Compass- 3.6 oz
Mini First Aid Kit- 2.3 oz
Baseball Cap- 4 oz
Sunglasses- 2 oz
Belt- 3 oz
Hiking Boots- 27 oz
-Food Canister- 41 oz (10 lbs total)
Jerky - 12 oz
Snack Sack - 3 lbs
Starburst - done
Snack bars - done
Electrolytes -done
Gatorade -done
Crystal Lite -done
Apple Cider -done
Gum -done
Dried Fruit
Peanut Butter ?
Entrées
Breakfast
Oatmeal
Lunch - 4.3 oz ea
Dinner - 4.3 oz ea.
9:30 PM
-Main Compartment - 412.6 oz/25 lbs11.9 oz
Sleeping bag liner- 4.5 oz
OR Bivy Sack- 30.5 oz (1lbs 14.8 oz)
Sleeping bag- 52 oz
Compression Sack- 3.5 oz
Exped Pillow- 3.6 oz
Thermarest Pad- 24 oz (1 lbs 9.2 oz)
Stove- 3 oz
Gas Qty. 2 - 26 oz
Camp dishes- 18 oz (1 lbs 2.9oz)
Camp Utensils -
First Aid Kit - 1 lbs 4.9 oz
MSR Water Filter - 14.9 oz
Shovel- 28 oz (1 lbs 11.3 oz)
Gregory Z65 pack- 67 oz
Water Bladder (full)- 110 oz
Lumbar Day pack?- 14 oz
Water Straw- 1.5 oz
Camp Towel- .9
Trash compacter bag -
-Tech
iPhone - 4.7 oz
iPhone Charger -
iPhone Cable - .5 oz
Walkie Talkie(s) -7 oz
-Clothes Stuff Sack - 5lbs
Socks
Underwear
Shirt
Shorts/Pants
Jacket 2 lbs 9 oz & Pullover
Gloves & Stocking Cap
-Hygiene - Front Pouch - 1 lbs 7 oz
Wipes - 7 oz
Toothbrush - 1 oz
Tooth paste - .75 oz
Map Pouch & Map - 8 oz
-Supplies - Orange - 3lbs
Survival Kit
Soft Water Bottle(s)
Head Light
Flash Light
Extra Dry Bag
Batteries
Straps
Stakes Qty. 5
Fire Tinder
Hand sanitizer (accelerant)
Tape
Multi-tool
550 Cord - 8 oz
Camp Soap
-On My Person 4 lb 6.7 oz
Knife- 11.8 oz (1 lbs 10.9 oz total)
Sheath & Pouch
Sharpener
Survival Kit & Cord
Whistle on lanyard
Fire Steel
Compass- 3.6 oz
Mini First Aid Kit- 2.3 oz
Baseball Cap- 4 oz
Sunglasses- 2 oz
Belt- 3 oz
Hiking Boots- 27 oz
-Food Canister- 41 oz (10 lbs total)
Jerky - 12 oz
Snack Sack - 3 lbs
Starburst - done
Snack bars - done
Electrolytes -done
Gatorade -done
Crystal Lite -done
Apple Cider -done
Gum -done
Dried Fruit
Peanut Butter ?
Entrées
Breakfast
Oatmeal
Chris Gilmore
(408) 461-1380
Randy
2012-04-16 02:01:38 UTC
Permalink
i don't know that i'd consider that light unless you were camping out
of a pickup. i'd lose the knife for something smaller, a good bit of
the non-essential food, and unless you are palnning on camping where
it's very cold all the time, i'd get a 40 deg. bag with the liner if
it is going to be colder. there are some nice foam pads that weigh 4
oz. and are nice to sleep on. use your compression sack to make a
pillow with your clothes and jacket. you can use a trowel for your
sanitary needs; get an aluminum one as the plastic won't hold up. lose
the water filter unless you are camping along the ganges. the
purification tablets work well and you can use coffee filters to get
out the grit. use a silicon baking dish for eating, easy to clean and
stash. your pack lid should double as a fanny pack. also i'd get a
good pack cover. granite gear makes a nice one.
best thing to do is hike with it and throw out stuff you don't use.
carry it for 50-100 miles and you'll see what i mean.i also carry4-5
liters of water if i have uncertain resupply.
others will have other opinions.
best of luck.
randy
OK folks be kind, i'm slowly moving towards ultra light with a
short stop (1 season) in light as I evaluate which gear I can do
without and what gear needs to be replaced. Please provide feedback
on what you think can be left behind or what should be swapped out
first.
-On My Person 4 lb 6.7 oz
Knife- 11.8 oz (1 lbs 10.9 oz total)
Sheath & Pouch
Sharpener
Survival Kit & Cord
Whistle on lanyard
Fire Steel
Compass- 3.6 oz
Mini First Aid Kit- 2.3 oz
Baseball Cap- 4 oz
Sunglasses- 2 oz
Belt- 3 oz
Hiking Boots- 27 oz
-Food Canister- 41 oz (10 lbs total)
Jerky - 12 oz
Snack Sack - 3 lbs
Starburst - done
Snack bars - done
Electrolytes -done
Gatorade -done
Crystal Lite -done
Apple Cider -done
Gum -done
Dried Fruit
Peanut Butter ?
Entrées
Breakfast
Oatmeal
Lunch - 4.3 oz ea
Dinner - 4.3 oz ea.
9:30 PM
-Main Compartment - 412.6 oz/25 lbs11.9 oz
Sleeping bag liner- 4.5 oz
OR Bivy Sack- 30.5 oz (1lbs 14.8 oz)
Sleeping bag- 52 oz
Compression Sack- 3.5 oz
Exped Pillow- 3.6 oz
Thermarest Pad- 24 oz (1 lbs 9.2 oz)
Stove- 3 oz
Gas Qty. 2 - 26 oz
Camp dishes- 18 oz (1 lbs 2.9oz)
Camp Utensils -
First Aid Kit - 1 lbs 4.9 oz
MSR Water Filter - 14.9 oz
Shovel- 28 oz (1 lbs 11.3 oz)
Gregory Z65 pack- 67 oz
Water Bladder (full)- 110 oz
Lumbar Day pack?- 14 oz
Water Straw- 1.5 oz
Camp Towel- .9
Trash compacter bag -
-Tech
iPhone - 4.7 oz
iPhone Charger -
iPhone Cable - .5 oz
Walkie Talkie(s) -7 oz
-Clothes Stuff Sack - 5lbs
Socks
Underwear
Shirt
Shorts/Pants
Jacket 2 lbs 9 oz & Pullover
Gloves & Stocking Cap
-Hygiene - Front Pouch - 1 lbs 7 oz
Wipes - 7 oz
Toothbrush - 1 oz
Tooth paste - .75 oz
Map Pouch & Map - 8 oz
-Supplies - Orange - 3lbs
Survival Kit
Soft Water Bottle(s)
Head Light
Flash Light
Extra Dry Bag
Batteries
Straps
Stakes Qty. 5
Fire Tinder
Hand sanitizer (accelerant)
Tape
Multi-tool
550 Cord - 8 oz
Camp Soap
-On My Person 4 lb 6.7 oz
Knife- 11.8 oz (1 lbs 10.9 oz total)
Sheath & Pouch
Sharpener
Survival Kit & Cord
Whistle on lanyard
Fire Steel
Compass- 3.6 oz
Mini First Aid Kit- 2.3 oz
Baseball Cap- 4 oz
Sunglasses- 2 oz
Belt- 3 oz
Hiking Boots- 27 oz
-Food Canister- 41 oz (10 lbs total)
Jerky - 12 oz
Snack Sack - 3 lbs
Starburst - done
Snack bars - done
Electrolytes -done
Gatorade -done
Crystal Lite -done
Apple Cider -done
Gum -done
Dried Fruit
Peanut Butter ?
Entrées
Breakfast
Oatmeal
Chris Gilmore
(408) 461-1380
Segraves
2012-04-16 12:40:02 UTC
Permalink
You'll get lots of great suggestions here, but as context, it'd be helpful, IMO, to know a thing or two about trip length and expected weather.
Best,
Bill

--- On Sat, 4/14/12, Chris Gilmore <chris_gilmore2001-/***@public.gmane.org> wrote:

OK folks be kind, i'm slowly moving towards  ultra light with a short stop (1 season) in light as I evaluate which gear I can do without and what gear needs to be replaced. Please provide feedback on what you think can be left behind or what should be swapped out first. 
Jim Marco
2012-04-16 12:55:33 UTC
Permalink
Hi Chris,
35 pounds is a respectable figure. If you plan on two weeks out. Food is often the largest part of most lightweight packers weight.
Pack weights are variable, though. This is the weight of the pack at the trail head, as you leave. Base weight is the weight of your pack and gear without food and water (some people count all consumables...so this is not quite as well defined as you might think.) FSO (From Skin Out) weight, is counting everything. I don't generally use this, but this is more to keep what you are wearing and in your pockets as part of your camping kit.
Generally, I would suggest removing redundancy as others have said. Indeed, one of the primary goals of light weight packing is to eliminate everything that you do not use. Example, about half of the time, EVERY item I carry will be used over single 24 hour period. That also means there is almost NO redundancy. No backup. For those items that you absolutely must bring:
1) Ultra Reliable. An item cannot fail because it would make camping harder without it. Stoves, tents/tarps, etc must be rock solid.
2) You cannot lose stuff. When you are packed up in the morning, *check* again. Stakes, poles, odd items all need to be accounted for.
3) Small, yet fully functional within size constraints. Example: A tiny Leatherman Micra or Squirt (not both) should handle most chores well. I also carry a pocket knife. But, these are two different tools. One is larger and sharpened to a razor edge, it cuts. The squirt grasps, pry's, and twists. Two different animals that between them cover everything I will need to do. I don't mind if I have to beat the small edge to rounded worthless. Everything in my pack is adjusted with the Squirt, soo, it works on everything...lights, fishing reel & lures, etc. (Note that the screw driver was ground similar to the one in the Micra, ie, flat and angled to fit #0-#2 Philips heads.)

Your pack is perhaps one of the big determinants. Big packs breed space glut...and the desire to fill it with odd items you do not need. My first aid kit is a couple band aids. I use fuel as a sterilizer. I use duct tape on blisters and over larger cuts, ... a bit of toilet paper makes a good pad, wrapped with duct tape to keep it on. It will wash out when I need to clean the wound. I am often out for a week to ten days using a 3000ci pack (Gossamer Gear Miniposa.) Keep your gear small and minimal. Learn how to make do with what you have. Generally, I get everything in a 9-11 pound base load. This is borderline light/ultra light. (10 pounds is considered Ultra Light, 20# is light.) I recently purchased a 2200ci Murmur. I am betting, I can get everything for 5-6 days in it. Again, food is my single biggest weight, often exceeding everything else by double or triple my base weight. Soo, starting with your pack, get a smaller pack. Often you will find sub 1pound packs rated to 25 or 30 pounds. Z-Packs, Gossamer Gear, Six Moons Designs, ULA are some good manufacturers. Light, to ultra light ranging from about 8.5oz to about 24oz. For 7 days, you do not need more. This is dollars outlaid. No help for it, unless you make your own. Note that GG includes a whistle (not real necessary) on their sternum straps. A good waist belt is nice when doing 20+mi per day. It places the majority of the load on or over your hips. There is no sense carrying weight any higher. Load transfer means keeping the pack straight, the load will *transfer* to your hips. Ideally, it should mould to your spine while hiking, but remain flexible enough to bend over and touch your toes without being painful.
OK, on to your list:
Knife- 11.8 oz (1 lbs 10.9 oz total) Too heavy. Buck or Gerber makes locking pocket knives for <2oz
Sheath & Pouch Not Needed.
Sharpener A 1/2 sheet of 2000 grit sandpaper, wrapped around a stick works fine.
Survival Kit & Cord Not Needed. Your pack gear IS your survival kit.
Whistle on lanyard Not Needed. See above.
Fire Steel Bic lighter (2 for the same weight.)
Compass- 3.6 oz Small ones are good, with a good map, you won't be doing much more than checking "north". ~.5oz
Mini First Aid Kit- 2.3 oz Not Needed. (Maybe, if you lead a group.)
Baseball Cap- 4 oz A wider brimmed "cowboy" style hat works well.
Sunglasses- 2 oz Not needed...depending on where you hike.
Belt- 3 oz Find a cheap lightweight nylon one, or integrated with your pants.
Hiking Boots- 27 oz Depending on terrain, you could go with a pair of trail runners, About 12-14oz per foot.

-Food Canister- 41 oz (10 lbs total) I won't comment on food, except to say you need 1-2 pounds per person per day. It will vary.
Jerky - 12 oz
Snack Sack - 3 lbs
Starburst - done
Snack bars - done
Electrolytes -done
Gatorade -done
Crystal Lite -done
Apple Cider -done
Gum -done
Dried Fruit
Peanut Butter ?
Entrées
Breakfast
Oatmeal
Lunch - 4.3 oz ea
Dinner - 4.3 oz ea.

9:30 PM
-Main Compartment - 412.6 oz/25 lbs11.9 oz
Sleeping bag liner- 4.5 oz Not needed. Bring a set of long johns. You can wear them if things get bad, too.
OR Bivy Sack- 30.5 oz (1lbs 14.8 oz) A 9'x11' tarp can be set up as an A-Frame, bivy sack or lean-to...it weighs about 13oz.
Sleeping bag- 52 oz Get a lighter one. I use a 1#11oz(27oz) down bag.
Compression Sack- 3.5 oz OK. Size can be as important as weight. NEVER compress a synthetic sleeping bag, though.
Exped Pillow- 3.6 oz Not Needed. Even your shoes wrapped in a sweater will work.
Thermarest Pad- 24 oz (1 lbs 9.2 oz) NightLite Pad from Gossamer Gear has about the same R value. It weighs ~10oz.

These items are different. I carry a SVEA 123 with cup, and a grease pot (K-Mart or Stanco,) a 12oz soda bottle(fuel cell) and aluminum foil wind screen/heat shield. With a Ti spoon, this comes to about 38oz. This is considered a bit heavy, but the stove is ultra reliable and fuel efficient for 7-10 days. For short 2 day trips out, I bring an alcohol stove. Saves about a pound or so, about the weight of the stove...
Stove- 3 oz
Gas Qty. 2 - 26 oz
Camp dishes- 18 oz (1 lbs 2.9oz)
Camp Utensils -


First Aid Kit - 1 lbs 4.9 oz Not needed.
MSR Water Filter - 14.9 oz AquaMira drops, plus bottles. Weighs about 1.5oz
Shovel- 28 oz (1 lbs 11.3 oz) Not Needed.
Gregory Z65 pack- 67 oz Much lighter packs out there. Assuming 16oz for light weight. 8oz for UL. 4oz for SUL.
Water Bladder (full)- 110 oz ?? See below...
Lumbar Day pack?- 14 oz Not Needed. Your pack will be about as light.
Water Straw- 1.5 oz ?? See below...
Camp Towel- .9 Not Needed. A bandana, cotton, weighs about the same.
Trash compacter bag - They are rugged, but a trash bag works better. TC bags or Turkey bags can split.

-Tech
iPhone - 4.7 oz I don't carry any. They don't work where I hike.
iPhone Charger -
iPhone Cable - .5 oz
Walkie Talkie(s) -7 oz NEVER! You and your partner or group should never be out of ear shot! Larger groups should be broken down, but proper planning will let you meet at the end of a day. If not, always assume there IS a problem and they are on the trail as planned.

-Clothes Stuff Sack - 5lbs Clothing can be difficult because it depends on conditions. Assuming extra cloths.
1 set of long johns ... for sleeping in or when things go south. (12oz total)
3 pair of long wool socks (8oz total) 1 pair goes in with sleeping cloths and sleeping bag.
1 down jacket/sweater (12oz)
1 light wool sweater (14oz
1 rain jacket-5.5oz. Full PU coated nylon, not WP/B stuff.
(For >2 week trips only...)
1 long sleeved shirt ... bug resistant weave.
1 pair of pants ... Zip off, nylon, with belt around 10oz.
1 pair of jocky shorts...nylon or spandex blend. Support, like any other athletics.
1 pair of shorts or swim trunks. (Used in town to do laundry and for swimming.)
1 set of glove liners. (Use socks if it is really cold.) Glove liners are for paddling canoes.
This will protect you down to about 32F if you are stationary. You will NOT need these hiking. This comes up to about the same weight. For less than 2 weeks, I just bring extra socks, long johns, sweaters, and rain gear. Socks will double as mittens. This is about 3.5 pounds, but will also keep me as well as yours. I always wear a wide brimmed hat. Sheds rain really well, sheds sunlight, acts as a cozy, fans the fire and organizes my pocket gear at night.

Socks
Underwear
Shirt
Shorts/Pants
Jacket 2 lbs 9 oz & Pullover
Gloves & Stocking Cap

-Hygiene - Front Pouch - 1 lbs 7 oz
Wipes - 7 oz Not Needed. Or, dry them out first. I use about 2oz of TP per trip.
Toothbrush - 1 oz I use just the head from Toob brand, weighs about 1/3oz
Tooth paste - .75 oz Not Needed. Or as Rosaleen suggests, dry dots of it.
Map Pouch & Map - 8 oz You can use a baggie and the sections you are going to hike. Make copies and cut the hell out of them, 1/2oz.

-Supplies - Orange - 3lbs
Survival Kit Not Needed.
Soft Water Bottle(s) ??See note below...
Head Light >>See note below...
Flash Light >>See note below...
Extra Dry Bag Not Needed.
Batteries 1 set 2016>>See note below.., 1 set 2032 for longer trips.
Straps Not Needed.
Stakes Qty. 5 Good, count out exactly what you need.
Fire Tinder Not Needed. Or, bring a piece of candle...works as well with a lighter.
Hand sanitizer (accelerant) Not Needed. You already have your own germs, ha ha. Some brands do not burn that well.
Tape 5-6' of duct tape? Yes.
Multi-tool Usually a tiny Squirt, as discussed above.
550 Cord - 8 oz 50' of 1.5mm line and a small, ti, Niteize s-biner. (Bear line I assume.) 1.75oz
Camp Soap ?? A tiny bottle of ivory dish soap will last about a month one drop at a time. Small amounts!

-On My Person 4 lb 6.7 oz (??duplicate?)
Knife- 11.8 oz (1 lbs 10.9 oz total)
Sheath & Pouch
Sharpener
Survival Kit & Cord
Whistle on lanyard
Fire Steel
Compass- 3.6 oz
Mini First Aid Kit- 2.3 oz
Baseball Cap- 4 oz
Sunglasses- 2 oz
Belt- 3 oz
Hiking Boots- 27 oz

-Food Canister- 41 oz (10 lbs total)
Jerky - 12 oz
Snack Sack - 3 lbs
Starburst - done
Snack bars - done
Electrolytes -done
Gatorade -done
Crystal Lite -done
Apple Cider -done
Gum -done
Dried Fruit
Peanut Butter ?
Entrées
Breakfast
Oatmeal

Note??: Water is a problem and is highly variable. I usually bring 2-20oz gatoraid bottles or the like. Anything with a wide mouth. They fill easily and will fit a steripen. For short trips into the High Peaks area in NY, it is better to have the stripen because water sources are about 5-6 hours apart. I will have drained both bottles and need water NOW. Generally I use AquaMira drops, though. The AM bottles will last for a month on the trail. And they are quite light. You can repackage them if needed for shorter 1 week trips. Generally not worth all the hassle, though. Filters are a hassle to set up and fill. Mostly, the springs and small creeks are plentiful, but, small. And they require larger containers, meaning I have to carry more between watering holes. I tried filters several times. They just don't work all that well for me...lazy I guess. Backup is always boiling. Warm coffee, tea, and even Kool-Aid is fine, but not really great on a 80F day.
Note >>: Lighting is more of a personal choice. I do not like head lamps. People look at me and blind me. Generally, I use a small "Impulse" computerized light with timed off. This takes 2016 batteries. I mention this because rather than take a spare set of batteries, I take a second light. At a few grams more weight, I have a back up and it comes in handy for around camp. This is a $1 special (I picked up 20 of them) at a craft store. I stick it in a tiny plastic baggie. If needed, I can open it up and remove the batteries for the Impulse. It throws about 7-8 lumens of light, plenty for any darkness adapted eyes. Petzel's E-light is my hiking light. It will last 16 hours or so. It only throws about 10-12lumens of light, but again, is fine for darkness adapted eyes. More, and I lose whatever adjustment my eyes have built up. A larger light bounces off the leaves or rock face a LOT. This reflection means you need a bigger light. With a bigger light, you get more reflection...needing a bigger light... and more reflection... If I am hiking after dark (doesn't happen too often, maybe 5-10% of my nights out do I need it) I wait till I stumble, then clip it to my shoulder strap, NOT my head. The somewhat shorter angle will show roots and rocks in my path better. I do carry an extra set of batteries for this, not for week long trips, but for longer distance hikes. For >3 weeks, I just bring a second E-light. Both the Impulse and E-light are waterproof and have variable settings. I use the lowest setting I can, knowing that reflected light is what we see, but it is also what blinds. I really hate headlamps because of the high outputs, and, invariably, the person using them forgets and looks at me while we speak. Ouch...
My thoughts only . . .
jdm
James D. Marco
302 Mary Lane
Ithaca, NY 14850
607-273-9132 (land), 607-220-9969(cell)
OK folks be kind, i'm slowly moving towards ultra light with a short stop (1 season) in light as I evaluate which gear I can do without and what gear needs to be replaced. Please provide feedback on what you think can be left behind or what should be swapped out first.

-On My Person 4 lb 6.7 oz
Knife- 11.8 oz (1 lbs 10.9 oz total)
Sheath & Pouch
Sharpener
Survival Kit & Cord
Whistle on lanyard
Fire Steel
Compass- 3.6 oz
Mini First Aid Kit- 2.3 oz
Baseball Cap- 4 oz
Sunglasses- 2 oz
Belt- 3 oz
Hiking Boots- 27 oz

-Food Canister- 41 oz (10 lbs total)
Jerky - 12 oz
Snack Sack - 3 lbs
Starburst - done
Snack bars - done
Electrolytes -done
Gatorade -done
Crystal Lite -done
Apple Cider -done
Gum -done
Dried Fruit
Peanut Butter ?
Entrées
Breakfast
Oatmeal
Lunch - 4.3 oz ea
Dinner - 4.3 oz ea.

9:30 PM
-Main Compartment - 412.6 oz/25 lbs11.9 oz
Sleeping bag liner- 4.5 oz
OR Bivy Sack- 30.5 oz (1lbs 14.8 oz)
Sleeping bag- 52 oz
Compression Sack- 3.5 oz
Exped Pillow- 3.6 oz
Thermarest Pad- 24 oz (1 lbs 9.2 oz)
Stove- 3 oz
Gas Qty. 2 - 26 oz
Camp dishes- 18 oz (1 lbs 2.9oz)
Camp Utensils -
First Aid Kit - 1 lbs 4.9 oz
MSR Water Filter - 14.9 oz
Shovel- 28 oz (1 lbs 11.3 oz)
Gregory Z65 pack- 67 oz
Water Bladder (full)- 110 oz
Lumbar Day pack?- 14 oz
Water Straw- 1.5 oz
Camp Towel- .9
Trash compacter bag -

-Tech
iPhone - 4.7 oz
iPhone Charger -
iPhone Cable - .5 oz
Walkie Talkie(s) -7 oz

-Clothes Stuff Sack - 5lbs
Socks
Underwear
Shirt
Shorts/Pants
Jacket 2 lbs 9 oz & Pullover
Gloves & Stocking Cap

-Hygiene - Front Pouch - 1 lbs 7 oz
Wipes - 7 oz
Toothbrush - 1 oz
Tooth paste - .75 oz
Map Pouch & Map - 8 oz

-Supplies - Orange - 3lbs
Survival Kit
Soft Water Bottle(s)
Head Light
Flash Light
Extra Dry Bag
Batteries
Straps
Stakes Qty. 5
Fire Tinder
Hand sanitizer (accelerant)
Tape
Multi-tool
550 Cord - 8 oz
Camp Soap
-On My Person 4 lb 6.7 oz
Knife- 11.8 oz (1 lbs 10.9 oz total)
Sheath & Pouch
Sharpener
Survival Kit & Cord
Whistle on lanyard
Fire Steel
Compass- 3.6 oz
Mini First Aid Kit- 2.3 oz
Baseball Cap- 4 oz
Sunglasses- 2 oz
Belt- 3 oz
Hiking Boots- 27 oz

-Food Canister- 41 oz (10 lbs total)
Jerky - 12 oz
Snack Sack - 3 lbs
Starburst - done
Snack bars - done
Electrolytes -done
Gatorade -done
Crystal Lite -done
Apple Cider -done
Gum -done
Dried Fruit
Peanut Butter ?
Entrées
Breakfast
Oatmeal
Chris Gilmore
(408) 461-1380
Chris Gilmore
2012-04-28 05:49:07 UTC
Permalink
Well I finished my trip and have gotten to step II now. I went through everything I used and figured out a lot of stuff I could do without as well as a few places I could do dual duty. Here is what I came up with for phase II. Keep in mind there will be a Phase III, IV and V. Eventually I will upgrade my sleeping bag and possibly my backpack itself once I get the weight down low enough. Keep in mind i started out with my total pack weight last go around at 48 lbs. (yes I packed too much food & had a ton of redundancy).

Item: Example: Weight (oz)
Clothing Worn: 60.10
Shirt Cotton button up with collar 5.00
Pants Columbia Convertible Pants 10.80
Underwear Hanes Boxer Briefs 2.90
Socks SmartWool Mountaineer Socks 5.30
Belt Cinch Woven Belt 3.50
Liner Socks SmartWool Merino Wool Liner Socks 1.60
Sun Hat/Cap Baseball Cap 4.00
Shoes Keen Klamath Hiking Boots 27.00
Other Items Worn/Carried:   26.30
Watch Citizen Eco-Drive 6.50
Sunglasses Oakley FLAK Sun Glasses 2.00
Map BlackOps map pouch 8.00
Compass Brunton 8099 Eclipse 3.60
Fishing License & Wallet License, DL, ATM & Cash 2.00
Camera Sony W510 4.20
Knife and Survival 25.63
Knife Esee 6 11.90
Sheath & Pouch Esee 6 kydex sheath and pouch 5.70
Sharpener Redi-Edge Tactical 0.80
Paracord   1.00
Whistle on lanyard   0.10
Fire Steel Lite my Fire Army Fire steel 1.70
Mini Survival Kit tin container 1.20
Flash light Maglite Micro + AAA Battery 0.80
Fishing Kit   0.20
Button Compass   0.00
Signal Mirror   0.30
Water Purification AquaMira Water Purification Tablets 2 0.03
Fire Starter   0.05
Fire Tinder   0.05
Moleskin   0.00
Emergency Razor Knife   0.20
Emergency Saw   0.10
Tin Foil   0.60
Water Bag   0.30
Safety Pin   0.00
Pain Killer Aleve 8 ea 0.00
Snare Wire   0.03
Fishing line   0.03
magnifier   0.00
Duct Tape   0.00
sewing needle   0.00
paper write in rain 0.03
pencil Mini-pencil 0.03
Can Opener P38 0.5
Extra Clothing: 52.60
Rain Gear Only Pants (Assuming Down Jacket is Water Proof) 6.00
Crocs Crocs clogs for water walking 9.00
Insulating Layer Down Jacket 15.0
Polyproplene Layer Polypropolene Long Johns 10.0
Gloves Outdoor Research VersaLiner Gloves 2.90
Stocking Cap Carhart Wool cap 2.80
Spare Socks SmartWool Mountaineer Socks 5.30
Liner Socks SmartWool Merino Wool Liner Socks 1.60
Packing: 54.80
Backpack Gregory Z65 52.0
Stuff Sack(s) REI X-Small diddy Stuff Sack 0.70
Camp Towel MSR Camp Towel 0.90
Waterproofing Trash Compactor bag 1.00
Essentials Bag Ziplock Bag 0.20
Shelter & Sleeping: 117.05
Sleeping Bag Marmot Sawtooth Membrain 15 degree  52.0
Compression Sack Granite 11L Compression Sack 3.5
Sleeping Pad Thermarest Prolite Plus Pad  24.0
Bivy OR Alpine Bivy (If bugs or weather are issues) 30.50
Bivy Stakes REI Aluminum Hook stakes (No Bivy no stakes) 1.75
Drop Cloth Multiuse Contractor Grade Garbage Bag 4.30
Misquito Net Head net for use when Bivy isnt used 1.00
Cooking & Hydration: 43.80
Water Storage CamelBack 3L Hydration Bladder (100 OZ) 6.70
Water Carrier Platypus 1 lt. bottle 0.90
Water Purification System MSR AutoFlow system - 14.90 oz 0.00
Water Purification Seychelle's Advanced water straw 1.50
Water Purification AquaMira Water Purification Drops 3.00
Bear Canister Bear Vault BV500 - 41 oz 0.00
Food Stuff Sack REI Large Stuff Sack for food 6.00
Cooking Dishes GSI Halulite Micro Dualist 18.00
Stove MSR Pocket Rocket 3.00
Soap Camp Soap in microbottle 2.70
Lighter Bic Mini Lighter 0.50
Condiments Salt and Pepper Shaker 1.50
Essentials: 21.85
Flashlight Black Diamond head lamp 3.20
Toothbrush Toothbrush 1.00
Tooth Paste Crest micro tube 0.75
Toilet Paper Wet wipes 6.00
Hand Sanitizer Generic small high alchohol content 2.30
Floss Mini Floss  0.20
First Aid AMK .3 2.70
Sunscreen Sunscreen - microbottle 1.30
Water Purification Katdyn Water Purification Tablets 6 ea 0.00
Quick Clot   1.00
Duct Tape AMK Survival Duct Tape Role 0.70
Hydropel Foot treatment 1.00
Insect Protection Natrapel 1.70
Fishing & Tech (only when fishing or Tech is an asset) 47.90
Fly rod Cabelas LST 9' 4 piece rod 4.7
Reel Kronic Fly Reel & Pouch 7.90
Tackle Lanyard Mayfly Lanyard Pouch 20.50
Phone iPhone 4.70
Keys   3.30
Charger and Cable Scosche Charger and iPhone Cable 6.80
Consumables: 241.00
Food Total Food (2 days) 128.00
Stove Fuel Canister 13.00
Water Water - 10 liter 100.00
Total Items Worn/Carried (lbs.) 7.00
Total Base Weight (lbs.) 18.13
Total Weight of Consumables (lbs.) 15.06
Total Carried Pack Weight (2)+(3) 33.19


 
Chris Gilmore
(408) 461-1380


________________________________
From: Jim Marco <jdm27-***@public.gmane.org>
To: "BackpackingLight-***@public.gmane.org" <BackpackingLight-***@public.gmane.org>
Sent: Monday, April 16, 2012 5:55 AM
Subject: RE: [BackpackingLight] Looking to move towards light backpacking but want to maintain some comfort


 
Hi Chris,
                35 pounds is a respectable figure. If you plan on two weeks out. Food is often the largest part of most lightweight packers weight.
Pack weights are variable, though. This is the weight of the pack at the trail head, as you leave. Base weight is the weight of your pack and gear without food and water (some people count all consumables
so this is not quite as well defined as you might think.) FSO (From Skin Out) weight, is counting everything. I don’t generally use this, but this is more to keep what you are wearing and in your pockets as part of your camping kit.
                Generally, I would suggest removing redundancy as others have said. Indeed, one of the primary goals of light weight packing is to eliminate everything that you do not use.  Example, about half of the time, EVERY item I carry will be used over single 24 hour period. That also means there is almost NO redundancy. No backup. For those items that you absolutely must bring:
1)      Ultra Reliable. An item cannot fail because it would make camping harder without it. Stoves, tents/tarps, etc must be rock solid.
2)      You cannot lose stuff. When you are packed up in the morning, *check* again. Stakes, poles, odd items all need to be accounted for.
3)      Small, yet fully functional within size constraints.  Example: A tiny Leatherman Micra or Squirt (not both) should handle most chores well. I also carry a pocket knife. But, these are two different tools. One is larger and sharpened to a razor edge, it cuts. The squirt grasps, pry’s, and twists. Two different animals that between them cover everything I will need to do. I don’t mind if I have to beat the small edge to rounded worthless.  Everything in my pack is adjusted with the Squirt, soo, it works on everything
lights, fishing reel & lures, etc. (Note that the screw driver was ground similar to the one in the Micra, ie, flat and angled to fit #0-#2  Philips heads.)
 
Your pack is perhaps one of the big determinants. Big packs breed space glut
and the desire to fill it with odd items you do not need. My first aid kit is a couple band aids. I use fuel as a sterilizer. I use duct tape on blisters and over larger cuts, 
 a bit of toilet paper makes a good pad, wrapped with duct tape to keep it on.  It will wash out when I need to clean the wound. I am often out for a week to ten days using a 3000ci pack (Gossamer Gear Miniposa.) Keep your gear small and minimal. Learn how to make do with what you have. Generally, I get everything in a 9-11 pound base load. This is borderline light/ultra light. (10 pounds is considered Ultra Light, 20# is light.) I recently purchased a 2200ci Murmur.  I am betting, I can get everything for 5-6 days in it. Again, food is my single biggest weight, often exceeding everything else by double or triple my base weight. Soo, starting with your pack, get a smaller pack. Often you will find
sub 1pound packs rated to 25 or 30 pounds. Z-Packs, Gossamer Gear, Six Moons Designs, ULA are some good manufacturers. Light, to ultra light ranging from about 8.5oz to about 24oz. For 7 days, you do not need more. This is dollars outlaid. No help for it, unless you make your own. Note that GG includes a whistle (not real necessary) on their sternum straps. A good waist belt is nice when doing 20+mi per day. It places the majority of the load on or over your hips. There is no sense carrying weight any higher. Load transfer means keeping the pack straight, the load will *transfer* to your hips. Ideally, it should mould to your spine while hiking, but remain flexible enough to bend over and touch your toes without being painful.
OK, on to your list:  
Knife- 11.8 oz (1 lbs 10.9 oz total)              Too heavy. Buck or Gerber makes locking pocket knives for <2oz
Sheath & Pouch                                                Not Needed.
Sharpener                                                           A 1/2 sheet of 2000 grit sandpaper, wrapped around a stick works fine.
Survival Kit & Cord                                           Not Needed. Your pack gear IS your survival kit.
Whistle on lanyard                                          Not Needed. See above.
Fire Steel                                                             Bic lighter (2 for the same weight.)
Compass- 3.6 oz                                               Small ones are good, with a good map, you won’t be doing much more than checking “north”. ~.5oz
Mini First Aid Kit- 2.3 oz                                 Not Needed. (Maybe, if you lead a group.)
Baseball Cap- 4 oz                                            A wider brimmed “cowboy” style hat works well.
Sunglasses- 2 oz                                               Not needed
depending on where you hike.
Belt-  3 oz                                                            Find a cheap lightweight nylon one, or integrated with your pants.
Hiking Boots-  27 oz                                         Depending on terrain, you could go with a pair of trail runners, About 12-14oz per foot.
 
-Food Canister- 41 oz (10 lbs total)           I won’t comment on food, except to say you need 1-2 pounds per person per day. It will vary.
Jerky - 12 oz
Snack Sack - 3 lbs
Starburst - done
Snack bars - done
Electrolytes -done
Gatorade -done
Crystal Lite -done
Apple Cider -done
Gum -done
Dried Fruit
Peanut Butter ?
Entrées
Breakfast
Oatmeal
Lunch - 4.3 oz ea
Dinner - 4.3 oz ea.
 
9:30 PM
-Main Compartment - 412.6 oz/25 lbs11.9 oz
Sleeping bag liner- 4.5 oz                              Not needed. Bring a set of long johns. You can wear them if things get bad, too.
OR Bivy Sack- 30.5 oz  (1lbs 14.8 oz)          A 9’x11’ tarp can be set up as an A-Frame, bivy sack or lean-to
it weighs about 13oz.    
Sleeping bag- 52 oz                                         Get a lighter one. I use a 1#11oz(27oz) down bag.
Compression Sack- 3.5 oz                             OK. Size can be as important as weight. NEVER compress a synthetic sleeping bag, though.
Exped Pillow- 3.6 oz                                        Not Needed. Even your shoes wrapped in a sweater will work.
Thermarest Pad- 24 oz (1 lbs 9.2 oz)         NightLite Pad from Gossamer Gear has about the same R value. It weighs ~10oz.
 
                                These items are different. I carry a SVEA 123 with cup, and a grease pot (K-Mart or Stanco,) a 12oz soda bottle(fuel cell) and aluminum foil wind screen/heat shield. With a Ti spoon, this comes to about 38oz. This is considered a bit heavy, but the stove is ultra reliable and fuel efficient for 7-10 days. For short 2 day trips out, I bring an alcohol stove. Saves about a pound or so, about the weight of the stove...       
Stove- 3 oz
Gas Qty. 2 - 26 oz
Camp dishes- 18 oz (1 lbs 2.9oz)
Camp Utensils -
 
 
First Aid Kit - 1 lbs 4.9 oz                                Not needed.
MSR Water Filter - 14.9 oz                            AquaMira drops, plus bottles. Weighs about 1.5oz
Shovel- 28 oz (1 lbs 11.3 oz)                         Not Needed.
Gregory Z65 pack- 67 oz                                Much lighter packs out there. Assuming 16oz for light weight. 8oz for UL. 4oz for SUL.
Water Bladder (full)- 110 oz                         ?? See below

Lumbar Day pack?- 14 oz                              Not Needed. Your pack will be about as light.
Water Straw- 1.5 oz                                        ?? See below

Camp Towel- .9                                                 Not Needed. A bandana, cotton, weighs about the same.
 Trash compacter bag -                                  They are rugged, but a trash bag works better. TC bags or Turkey bags can split.
 
-Tech
iPhone - 4.7 oz                                                  I don’t carry any. They don’t work where I hike.
iPhone Charger -
iPhone Cable - .5 oz
Walkie Talkie(s) -7 oz                                      NEVER! You and your partner or group should never be out of ear shot! Larger groups should be broken down, but proper planning will let you meet at the end of a day. If not, always assume there IS a problem and they are on the trail as planned.
 
-Clothes Stuff Sack - 5lbs                              Clothing can be difficult because it depends on conditions. Assuming extra cloths.
                                                                                1 set of long johns 
 for sleeping in or when things go south. (12oz total)
                                                                                3 pair of long wool socks (8oz total) 1 pair goes in with sleeping cloths and sleeping bag.
                                                                                1 down jacket/sweater (12oz)
                                                                                1 light wool sweater  (14oz
                                                                                1 rain jacket-5.5oz. Full PU coated nylon, not WP/B stuff.
                                                                                (For >2 week trips only
)
                                                                                1 long sleeved shirt 
 bug resistant weave.
                                                                                1 pair of pants 
  Zip off, nylon, with belt around 10oz.
                                                                                1 pair of jocky shorts
nylon or spandex blend. Support, like any other athletics.
                                                                                1 pair of shorts or swim trunks. (Used in town to do laundry and for swimming.)
                                                                                1 set of glove liners. (Use socks if it is really cold.) Glove liners are for paddling canoes.
                This will protect you down to about 32F if you are stationary. You will NOT need these hiking. This comes up to about the same weight. For less than 2 weeks, I just bring extra socks, long johns, sweaters, and rain gear. Socks will double as mittens.  This is about 3.5 pounds, but will also keep me as well as yours. I always wear a wide brimmed hat. Sheds rain really well, sheds sunlight, acts as a cozy, fans the fire and organizes my pocket gear at night.
 
Socks
Underwear
Shirt
Shorts/Pants
Jacket  2 lbs 9 oz & Pullover
Gloves & Stocking Cap
 
-Hygiene  -Front Pouch - 1 lbs 7 oz
Wipes - 7 oz                                                        Not Needed. Or, dry them out first. I use about 2oz of TP per trip.
Toothbrush  - 1 oz                                            I use just the head from Toob brand, weighs about 1/3oz
Tooth paste  - .75 oz                                       Not Needed. Or as Rosaleen suggests, dry dots of it.
Map Pouch & Map - 8 oz                               You can use a baggie and the sections you are going to hike. Make copies and cut the hell out of them, 1/2oz.
 
-Supplies  - Orange - 3lbs
Survival Kit                                                          Not Needed.
Soft Water Bottle(s)                                       ??See note below

Head Light                                                           >>See note below

Flash Light                                                           >>See note below

Extra Dry Bag                                                     Not Needed.
Batteries                                                              1 set 2016>>See note below.., 1 set 2032 for longer trips.
Straps                                                                   Not Needed.
Stakes Qty. 5                                                      Good, count out exactly what you need.
Fire Tinder                                                          Not Needed. Or, bring a piece of candle
works as well with a lighter.
Hand sanitizer (accelerant)                          Not Needed. You already have your own germs, ha ha. Some brands do not burn that well.
Tape                                                                      5-6’ of duct tape? Yes.
Multi-tool                                                            Usually a tiny Squirt, as discussed above.
550 Cord  - 8 oz                                                  50’ of 1.5mm line and a small, ti, Niteize s-biner. (Bear line I assume.) 1.75oz
Camp Soap                                                         ?? A tiny bottle of ivory dish soap will last about a month one drop at a time. Small amounts!
 
-On My Person  4 lb 6.7 oz  (??duplicate?)
Knife- 11.8 oz (1 lbs 10.9 oz total)
Sheath & Pouch
Sharpener
Survival Kit & Cord
Whistle on lanyard
Fire Steel
Compass- 3.6 oz
Mini First Aid Kit- 2.3 oz
Baseball Cap- 4 oz
Sunglasses- 2 oz
Belt-  3 oz
Hiking Boots-  27 oz
 
-Food Canister- 41 oz (10 lbs total)
Jerky - 12 oz
Snack Sack - 3 lbs
Starburst - done
Snack bars - done
Electrolytes -done
Gatorade -done
Crystal Lite -done
Apple Cider -done
Gum -done
Dried Fruit
Peanut Butter ?
Entrées
Breakfast
Oatmeal 
 
Note??: Water is a problem and is highly variable. I usually bring 2-20oz gatoraid bottles or the like. Anything with a wide mouth. They fill easily and will fit a steripen. For short trips into the High Peaks area in NY, it is better to have the stripen because water sources are about 5-6 hours apart. I will have drained both bottles and need water NOW. Generally I use AquaMira drops, though. The AM bottles will last for a month on the trail. And they are quite light. You can repackage them if needed for shorter 1 week trips. Generally not worth all the hassle, though. Filters are a hassle to set up and fill. Mostly, the springs and small creeks are plentiful, but, small. And they require larger containers, meaning I have to carry more between watering holes. I tried filters several times. They just don’t work all that well for me
lazy I guess. Backup is always boiling. Warm coffee, tea, and even Kool-Aid is fine, but not really great on a 80F day.
Note >>:   Lighting is more of a personal choice. I do not like head lamps. People look at me and blind me. Generally, I use a small “Impulse” computerized light with timed off. This takes 2016 batteries. I mention this because rather than take a spare set of batteries, I take a second light. At a few grams more weight, I have a back up and it comes in handy for around camp. This is a $1 special (I picked up 20 of them) at a craft store. I stick it in a tiny plastic baggie. If needed, I can open it up and remove the batteries for the Impulse. It throws about 7-8 lumens of light, plenty for any darkness adapted eyes. Petzel’s E-light is my hiking light. It will last 16 hours or so. It only throws about 10-12lumens of light, but again, is fine for darkness adapted eyes. More, and I lose whatever adjustment my eyes have built up. A larger light bounces off the leaves or rock face a LOT. This reflection means you need a bigger light. With a bigger
light, you get more reflection
needing a bigger light
 and more reflection
  If I am hiking after dark (doesn’t happen too often, maybe 5-10% of my nights out do I need it) I wait till I stumble, then clip it to my shoulder strap, NOT my head. The somewhat shorter angle will show roots and rocks in my path better.  I do carry an extra set of batteries for this, not for week long trips, but for longer distance hikes. For >3 weeks, I just bring a second E-light. Both the Impulse and E-light are waterproof and have variable settings.  I use the lowest setting I can, knowing that reflected light is what we see, but it is also what blinds. I really hate headlamps because of the high outputs, and, invariably, the person using them forgets and looks at me while we speak. Ouch

My thoughts only . . .
                                jdm
James D. Marco
302 Mary Lane
Ithaca, NY  14850
607-273-9132 (land), 607-220-9969(cell)
OK folks be kind, i'm slowly moving towards  ultra light with a short stop (1 season) in light as I evaluate which gear I can do without and what gear needs to be replaced. Please provide feedback on what you think can be left behind or what should be swapped out first. 
 
-On My Person  4 lb 6.7 oz
Knife- 11.8 oz (1 lbs 10.9 oz total)
Sheath & Pouch
Sharpener
Survival Kit & Cord
Whistle on lanyard
Fire Steel
Compass- 3.6 oz
Mini First Aid Kit- 2.3 oz
Baseball Cap- 4 oz
Sunglasses- 2 oz
Belt-  3 oz
Hiking Boots-  27 oz
 
-Food Canister- 41 oz (10 lbs total)
Jerky - 12 oz
Snack Sack - 3 lbs
Starburst - done
Snack bars - done
Electrolytes -done
Gatorade -done
Crystal Lite -done
Apple Cider -done
Gum -done
Dried Fruit
Peanut Butter ?
Entrées
Breakfast
Oatmeal
Lunch - 4.3 oz ea
Dinner - 4.3 oz ea.
 
9:30 PM
-Main Compartment - 412.6 oz/25 lbs11.9 oz
Sleeping bag liner- 4.5 oz
OR Bivy Sack- 30.5 oz  (1lbs 14.8 oz)
Sleeping bag- 52 oz
Compression Sack- 3.5 oz
Exped Pillow- 3.6 oz
Thermarest Pad- 24 oz (1 lbs 9.2 oz)
Stove- 3 oz
Gas Qty. 2 - 26 oz
Camp dishes- 18 oz (1 lbs 2.9oz)
Camp Utensils -
First Aid Kit - 1 lbs 4.9 oz
MSR Water Filter - 14.9 oz
Shovel- 28 oz (1 lbs 11.3 oz)
Gregory Z65 pack- 67 oz
Water Bladder (full)- 110 oz
Lumbar Day pack?- 14 oz
Water Straw- 1.5 oz
Camp Towel- .9
 Trash compacter bag -
 
-Tech
iPhone - 4.7 oz
iPhone Charger -
iPhone Cable - .5 oz
Walkie Talkie(s) -7 oz
 
-Clothes Stuff Sack - 5lbs
Socks
Underwear
Shirt
Shorts/Pants
Jacket  2 lbs 9 oz & Pullover
Gloves & Stocking Cap
 
-Hygiene  -Front Pouch - 1 lbs 7 oz
Wipes - 7 oz
Toothbrush  - 1 oz
Tooth paste  - .75 oz
Map Pouch & Map - 8 oz
 
-Supplies  - Orange - 3lbs
Survival Kit
Soft Water Bottle(s)
Head Light
Flash Light
Extra Dry Bag
Batteries
Straps
Stakes Qty. 5
Fire Tinder
Hand sanitizer (accelerant)
Tape
Multi-tool
550 Cord  - 8 oz
Camp Soap 
-On My Person  4 lb 6.7 oz
Knife- 11.8 oz (1 lbs 10.9 oz total)
Sheath & Pouch
Sharpener
Survival Kit & Cord
Whistle on lanyard
Fire Steel
Compass- 3.6 oz
Mini First Aid Kit- 2.3 oz
Baseball Cap- 4 oz
Sunglasses- 2 oz
Belt-  3 oz
Hiking Boots-  27 oz
 
-Food Canister- 41 oz (10 lbs total)
Jerky - 12 oz
Snack Sack - 3 lbs
Starburst - done
Snack bars - done
Electrolytes -done
Gatorade -done
Crystal Lite -done
Apple Cider -done
Gum -done
Dried Fruit
Peanut Butter ?
Entrées
Breakfast
Oatmeal 
Chris Gilmore
(408) 461-1380
Mark Bayern
2012-04-28 16:16:03 UTC
Permalink
Quick comments:

8 ounces for a map pouch? Would a ziplock bag work?

16 ounces (a full pound) for a knife and sheath? Are you hiking or
whittling a bookcase? You include a razor knife in the emergency stuff, do
you really need the 1 pound knife? The sharpener is light, but did you use
it?

How many different water treatment methods do you need? I see five. I would
keep (at most) one filter and the two AQ tablets.

NEVER assume that a down jacket is water proof! This could be a serious
mistake.

Personally, I find making fire the hard way is a fun project, but in
serious (wet & windy) conditions I'd much rather rely on a lighter or
matches and a small candle. I would drop the firesteel, tinder and such for
some matches (keep 'em dry!) and a small candle.

You show food for a two day trip -- do really need any redundancy for that
short a trip? any spare clothes? two flashlights?

Look at that food again -- four pounds per day? If this two day is a simple
out and back with one night on the trail that seems excessive. Actually
4lbs/day seems excessive for any trip. With that much food, why carry the
fishing gear? For a two day trip, why carry the phone charger?

Lots of questions in the above. I don't need the answers ...

Mark

Once again, "NEVER assume that a down jacket is waterproof"
Post by Chris Gilmore
**
Well I finished my trip and have gotten to step II now. I went
through everything I used and figured out a lot of stuff I could
do without as well as a few places I could do dual duty. Here is what I
came up with for phase II. Keep in mind there will be a Phase III, IV and
V. Eventually I will upgrade my sleeping bag and possibly my backpack
itself once I get the weight down low enough. Keep in mind i started out
with my total pack weight last go around at 48 lbs. (yes I packed too much
food & had a ton of redundancy).
Item: Example: Weight (oz) Clothing Worn: 60.10 Shirt Cotton button
up with collar 5.00 Pants Columbia Convertible Pants 10.80 Underwear Hanes
Boxer Briefs 2.90 Socks SmartWool Mountaineer Socks 5.30 Belt Cinch
Woven Belt 3.50 Liner Socks SmartWool Merino Wool Liner Socks 1.60 Sun
Hat/Cap Baseball Cap 4.00 Shoes Keen Klamath Hiking Boots 27.00 Other
Items Worn/Carried: 26.30 Watch Citizen Eco-Drive 6.50 Sunglasses Oakley
FLAK Sun Glasses 2.00 Map BlackOps map pouch 8.00 Compass Brunton 8099
Eclipse 3.60 Fishing License & Wallet License, DL, ATM & Cash 2.00
Camera Sony W510 4.20 Knife and Survival 25.63 Knife Esee 6 11.90 Sheath
& Pouch Esee 6 kydex sheath and pouch 5.70 Sharpener Redi-Edge Tactical
0.80 Paracord 1.00 Whistle on lanyard 0.10 Fire Steel Lite my Fire
Army Fire steel 1.70 Mini Survival Kit tin container 1.20 Flash light Maglite
Micro + AAA Battery 0.80 Fishing Kit 0.20 Button Compass 0.00 Signal
Mirror 0.30 Water Purification AquaMira Water Purification Tablets 2
0.03 Fire Starter 0.05 Fire Tinder 0.05 Moleskin 0.00 Emergency
Razor Knife 0.20 Emergency Saw 0.10 Tin Foil 0.60 Water Bag
0.30 Safety Pin 0.00 Pain Killer Aleve 8 ea 0.00 Snare Wire 0.03 Fishing
line 0.03 magnifier 0.00 Duct Tape 0.00 sewing needle 0.00
paper write in rain 0.03 pencil Mini-pencil 0.03 Can Opener P38 0.5 Extra
Clothing: 52.60 Rain Gear Only Pants (Assuming Down Jacket is Water
Proof) 6.00 Crocs Crocs clogs for water walking 9.00 Insulating Layer Down
Jacket 15.0 Polyproplene Layer Polypropolene Long Johns 10.0 Gloves Outdoor
Research VersaLiner Gloves 2.90 Stocking Cap Carhart Wool cap 2.80 Spare
Socks SmartWool Mountaineer Socks 5.30 Liner Socks SmartWool Merino Wool
Liner Socks 1.60 Packing: 54.80 Backpack Gregory Z65 52.0 Stuff Sack(s) REI
X-Small diddy Stuff Sack 0.70 Camp Towel MSR Camp Towel 0.90
Waterproofing Trash Compactor bag 1.00 Essentials Bag Ziplock Bag 0.20 Shelter
& Sleeping: 117.05 Sleeping Bag Marmot Sawtooth Membrain 15 degree 52.0 Compression
Sack Granite 11L Compression Sack 3.5 Sleeping Pad Thermarest Prolite
Plus Pad 24.0 Bivy OR Alpine Bivy (If bugs or weather are issues) 30.50 Bivy
Stakes REI Aluminum Hook stakes (No Bivy no stakes) 1.75 Drop Cloth Multiuse
Contractor Grade Garbage Bag 4.30 Misquito Net Head net for use when
Bivy isnt used 1.00 Cooking & Hydration: 43.80 Water Storage CamelBack
3L Hydration Bladder (100 OZ) 6.70 Water Carrier Platypus 1 lt. bottle
0.90 Water Purification System MSR AutoFlow system - 14.90 oz 0.00 Water
Purification Seychelle's Advanced water straw 1.50 Water Purification AquaMira
Water Purification Drops 3.00 Bear Canister Bear Vault BV500 - 41 oz 0.00 Food
Stuff Sack REI Large Stuff Sack for food 6.00 Cooking Dishes GSI
Halulite Micro Dualist 18.00 Stove MSR Pocket Rocket 3.00 Soap Camp
Soap in microbottle 2.70 Lighter Bic Mini Lighter 0.50 Condiments Salt
and Pepper Shaker 1.50 Essentials: 21.85 Flashlight Black Diamond head
lamp 3.20 Toothbrush Toothbrush 1.00 Tooth Paste Crest micro tube 0.75 Toilet
Paper Wet wipes 6.00 Hand Sanitizer Generic small high alchohol content
2.30 Floss Mini Floss 0.20 First Aid AMK .3 2.70 Sunscreen Sunscreen
- microbottle 1.30 Water Purification Katdyn Water Purification Tablets
6 ea 0.00 Quick Clot 1.00 Duct Tape AMK Survival Duct Tape Role 0.70
Hydropel Foot treatment 1.00 Insect Protection Natrapel 1.70 Fishing &
Tech (only when fishing or Tech is an asset) 47.90 Fly rod Cabelas LST
9' 4 piece rod 4.7 Reel Kronic Fly Reel & Pouch 7.90 Tackle Lanyard Mayfly
Lanyard Pouch 20.50 Phone iPhone 4.70 Keys 3.30 Charger and Cable Scosche
Charger and iPhone Cable 6.80 Consumables: 241.00 Food Total Food (2
days) 128.00 Stove Fuel Canister 13.00 Water Water - 10 liter 100.00 Total
Items Worn/Carried (lbs.) 7.00 Total Base Weight (lbs.) 18.13 Total
Weight of Consumables (lbs.) 15.06 Total Carried Pack Weight (2)+(3)
33.19
Chris Gilmore
2012-04-28 17:42:23 UTC
Permalink
So i have asked myself the same questions about the map pouch but it hold my map, compass and attached easily to my sternum strap. Maybe it will go after the next trip and the ziploc is a decent idea.

Not ready to give up the knife yet but yes i will be leaving the sharpener behind next trip. (should take it off the list.)

As for the water treatment I think i'm going to get a sub 3 oz filter for my water bladder and ditch everything else except some tablets as they way almost nothing and pack in my survival tin really well.

The down jacket is a RAB it was suggested to me by a fellow packer because it weighs only 14 oz and it is waterproof.

I'm pretty proficient with my fire steel i can light my stove, campfires and just about anything else with it so i will opt to keep it but I also have a small Bic for now as a layer of redundancy but it may go away in step 3 or i may ditch the fire steel. Time will tell.

Yeah the food thing is a quandary for me as i am a snacker but love a hot meal for lunch and diner. I inherently pack more food than I need. I also pack with my 6 year old and he has MANY dietary restrictions so I have to carry two different meals in some cases or eat his food which tastes like hell to me. I have actually given some thought to switching to shakes for two meals a day as i eat a shake for breakfast at home every morning and have also done it for lunch once or twice (definitely plenty of calories). Only experience will tell on that one......
 

THANK YOU FOR THE FEEDBACK!

Chris Gilmore
(408) 461-1380


________________________________
From: Mark Bayern <plcmark-***@public.gmane.org>
To: BackpackingLight-***@public.gmane.org
Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2012 9:16 AM
Subject: Re: [BackpackingLight] Looking to move towards light backpacking but want to maintain some comfort


 
Quick comments:

8 ounces for a map pouch? Would a ziplock bag work?

16 ounces (a full pound) for a knife and sheath? Are you hiking or whittling a bookcase? You include a razor knife in the emergency stuff, do you really need the 1 pound knife? The sharpener is light, but did you use it?

How many different water treatment methods do you need? I see five. I would keep (at most) one filter and the two AQ tablets.

NEVER assume that a down jacket is water proof! This could be a serious mistake.

Personally, I find making fire the hard way is a fun project, but in serious (wet & windy) conditions I'd much rather rely on a lighter or matches and a small candle. I would drop the firesteel, tinder and such for some matches (keep 'em dry!) and a small candle. 

You show food for a two day trip -- do really need any redundancy for that short a trip? any spare clothes? two flashlights? 

Look at that food again -- four pounds per day? If this two day is a simple out and back with one night on the trail that seems excessive. Actually 4lbs/day seems excessive for any trip. With that much food, why carry the fishing gear? For a two day trip, why carry the phone charger?

Lots of questions in the above. I don't need the answers ...

Mark

Once again, "NEVER assume that a down jacket is waterproof"
Post by Chris Gilmore
 
Well I finished my trip and have gotten to step II now. I went through everything I used and figured out a lot of stuff I could do without as well as a few places I could do dual duty. Here is what I came up with for phase II. Keep in mind there will be a Phase III, IV and V. Eventually I will upgrade my sleeping bag and possibly my backpack itself once I get the weight down low enough. Keep in mind i started out with my total pack weight last go around at 48 lbs. (yes I packed too much food & had a ton of redundancy).
Item: Example: Weight (oz)
Clothing Worn: 60.10
Shirt Cotton button up with collar 5.00
Pants Columbia Convertible Pants 10.80
Underwear Hanes Boxer Briefs 2.90
Socks SmartWool Mountaineer Socks 5.30
Belt Cinch Woven Belt 3.50
Liner Socks SmartWool Merino Wool Liner Socks 1.60
Sun Hat/Cap Baseball Cap 4.00
Shoes Keen Klamath Hiking Boots 27.00
Other Items Worn/Carried:   26.30
Watch Citizen Eco-Drive 6.50
Sunglasses Oakley FLAK Sun Glasses 2.00
Map BlackOps map pouch 8.00
Compass Brunton 8099 Eclipse 3.60
Fishing License & Wallet License, DL, ATM & Cash 2.00
Camera Sony W510 4.20
Knife and Survival 25.63
Knife Esee 6 11.90
Sheath & Pouch Esee 6 kydex sheath and pouch 5.70
Sharpener Redi-Edge Tactical 0.80
Paracord   1.00
Whistle on lanyard   0.10
Fire Steel Lite my Fire Army Fire steel 1.70
Mini Survival Kit tin container 1.20
Flash light Maglite Micro + AAA Battery 0.80
Fishing Kit   0.20
Button Compass   0.00
Signal Mirror   0.30
Water Purification AquaMira Water Purification Tablets 2 0.03
Fire Starter   0.05
Fire Tinder   0.05
Moleskin   0.00
Emergency Razor Knife   0.20
Emergency Saw   0.10
Tin Foil   0.60
Water Bag   0.30
Safety Pin   0.00
Pain Killer Aleve 8 ea 0.00
Snare Wire   0.03
Fishing line   0.03
magnifier   0.00
Duct Tape   0.00
sewing needle   0.00
paper write in rain 0.03
pencil Mini-pencil 0.03
Can Opener P38 0.5
Extra Clothing: 52.60
Rain Gear Only Pants (Assuming Down Jacket is Water Proof) 6.00
Crocs Crocs clogs for water walking 9.00
Insulating Layer Down Jacket 15.0
Polyproplene Layer Polypropolene Long Johns 10.0
Gloves Outdoor Research VersaLiner Gloves 2.90
Stocking Cap Carhart Wool cap 2.80
Spare Socks SmartWool Mountaineer Socks 5.30
Liner Socks SmartWool Merino Wool Liner Socks 1.60
Packing: 54.80
Backpack Gregory Z65 52.0
Stuff Sack(s) REI X-Small diddy Stuff Sack 0.70
Camp Towel MSR Camp Towel 0.90
Waterproofing Trash Compactor bag 1.00
Essentials Bag Ziplock Bag 0.20
Shelter & Sleeping: 117.05
Sleeping Bag Marmot Sawtooth Membrain 15 degree  52.0
Compression Sack Granite 11L Compression Sack 3.5
Sleeping Pad Thermarest Prolite Plus Pad  24.0
Bivy OR Alpine Bivy (If bugs or weather are issues) 30.50
Bivy Stakes REI Aluminum Hook stakes (No Bivy no stakes) 1.75
Drop Cloth Multiuse Contractor Grade Garbage Bag 4.30
Misquito Net Head net for use when Bivy isnt used 1.00
Cooking & Hydration: 43.80
Water Storage CamelBack 3L Hydration Bladder (100 OZ) 6.70
Water Carrier Platypus 1 lt. bottle 0.90
Water Purification System MSR AutoFlow system - 14.90 oz 0.00
Water Purification Seychelle's Advanced water straw 1.50
Water Purification AquaMira Water Purification Drops 3.00
Bear Canister Bear Vault BV500 - 41 oz 0.00
Food Stuff Sack REI Large Stuff Sack for food 6.00
Cooking Dishes GSI Halulite Micro Dualist 18.00
Stove MSR Pocket Rocket 3.00
Soap Camp Soap in microbottle 2.70
Lighter Bic Mini Lighter 0.50
Condiments Salt and Pepper Shaker 1.50
Essentials: 21.85
Flashlight Black Diamond head lamp 3.20
Toothbrush Toothbrush 1.00
Tooth Paste Crest micro tube 0.75
Toilet Paper Wet wipes 6.00
Hand Sanitizer Generic small high alchohol content 2.30
Floss Mini Floss  0.20
First Aid AMK .3 2.70
Sunscreen Sunscreen - microbottle 1.30
Water Purification Katdyn Water Purification Tablets 6 ea 0.00
Quick Clot   1.00
Duct Tape AMK Survival Duct Tape Role 0.70
Hydropel Foot treatment 1.00
Insect Protection Natrapel 1.70
Fishing & Tech (only when fishing or Tech is an asset) 47.90
Fly rod Cabelas LST 9' 4 piece rod 4.7
Reel Kronic Fly Reel & Pouch 7.90
Tackle Lanyard Mayfly Lanyard Pouch 20.50
Phone iPhone 4.70
Keys   3.30
Charger and Cable Scosche Charger and iPhone Cable 6.80
Consumables: 241.00
Food Total Food (2 days) 128.00
Stove Fuel Canister 13.00
Water Water - 10 liter 100.00
Total Items Worn/Carried (lbs.) 7.00
Total Base Weight (lbs.) 18.13
Total Weight of Consumables (lbs.) 15.06
Total Carried Pack Weight (2)+(3) 33.19
Mark Bayern
2012-04-28 22:31:16 UTC
Permalink
"I'm pretty proficient with my fire steel i can light my stove, campfires
and just about anything else with it

In a windy rain-storm?
"The down jacket is a RAB it was suggested to me by a fellow packer
because it weighs only 14 oz and it is waterproof.
From my point of view, a waterproof down article is either impossible, or
unusable. If this was truly waterproof, what happens when you put it on and
start hiking? do you create a sauna from your own perspiration? or does the
down soak it up? Neither option sounds good. Once again, will this really
work in those windy and wet conditions?

Enjoy your hiking.

Mark
**
So i have asked myself the same questions about the map pouch but it hold
my map, compass and attached easily to my sternum strap. Maybe it will go
after the next trip and the ziploc is a decent idea.
Not ready to give up the knife yet but yes i will be leaving the sharpener
behind next trip. (should take it off the list.)
As for the water treatment I think i'm going to get a sub 3 oz filter for
my water bladder and ditch everything else except some tablets as they way
almost nothing and pack in my survival tin really well.
The down jacket is a RAB it was suggested to me by a fellow packer because
it weighs only 14 oz and it is waterproof.
I'm pretty proficient with my fire steel i can light my stove, campfires
and just about anything else with it so i will opt to keep it but
I also have a small Bic for now as a layer of redundancy but it may go away
in step 3 or i may ditch the fire steel. Time will tell.
Yeah the food thing is a quandary for me as i am a snacker but love a hot
meal for lunch and diner. I inherently pack more food than I need. I also
pack with my 6 year old and he has MANY dietary restrictions so I have to
carry two different meals in some cases or eat his food which tastes like
hell to me. I have actually given some thought to switching to shakes for
two meals a day as i eat a shake for breakfast at home every morning and
have also done it for lunch once or twice (definitely plenty of
calories). Only experience will tell on that one......
THANK YOU FOR THE FEEDBACK!
Chris Gilmore
(408) 461-1380
Robin Joy
2012-04-28 17:37:22 UTC
Permalink
You can save weight with a Sawyer water filter 3.5 oz. will filter 1,000,000 gallons, check it out.
Well I finished my trip and have gotten to step II now. I went through everything I used and figured out a lot of stuff I could do without as well as a few places I could do dual duty. Here is what I came up with for phase II. Keep in mind there will be a Phase III, IV and V. Eventually I will upgrade my sleeping bag and possibly my backpack itself once I get the weight down low enough. Keep in mind i started out with my total pack weight last go around at 48 lbs. (yes I packed too much food & had a ton of redundancy).
Item: Example: Weight (oz)
Clothing Worn: 60.10
Shirt Cotton button up with collar 5.00
Pants Columbia Convertible Pants 10.80
Underwear Hanes Boxer Briefs 2.90
Socks SmartWool Mountaineer Socks 5.30
Belt Cinch Woven Belt 3.50
Liner Socks SmartWool Merino Wool Liner Socks 1.60
Sun Hat/Cap Baseball Cap 4.00
Shoes Keen Klamath Hiking Boots 27.00
Other Items Worn/Carried: 26.30
Watch Citizen Eco-Drive 6.50
Sunglasses Oakley FLAK Sun Glasses 2.00
Map BlackOps map pouch 8.00
Compass Brunton 8099 Eclipse 3.60
Fishing License & Wallet License, DL, ATM & Cash 2.00
Camera Sony W510 4.20
Knife and Survival 25.63
Knife Esee 6 11.90
Sheath & Pouch Esee 6 kydex sheath and pouch 5.70
Sharpener Redi-Edge Tactical 0.80
Paracord 1.00
Whistle on lanyard 0.10
Fire Steel Lite my Fire Army Fire steel 1.70
Mini Survival Kit tin container 1.20
Flash light Maglite Micro + AAA Battery 0.80
Fishing Kit 0.20
Button Compass 0.00
Signal Mirror 0.30
Water Purification AquaMira Water Purification Tablets 2 0.03
Fire Starter 0.05
Fire Tinder 0.05
Moleskin 0.00
Emergency Razor Knife 0.20
Emergency Saw 0.10
Tin Foil 0.60
Water Bag 0.30
Safety Pin 0.00
Pain Killer Aleve 8 ea 0.00
Snare Wire 0.03
Fishing line 0.03
magnifier 0.00
Duct Tape 0.00
sewing needle 0.00
paper write in rain 0.03
pencil Mini-pencil 0.03
Can Opener P38 0.5
Extra Clothing: 52.60
Rain Gear Only Pants (Assuming Down Jacket is Water Proof) 6.00
Crocs Crocs clogs for water walking 9.00
Insulating Layer Down Jacket 15.0
Polyproplene Layer Polypropolene Long Johns 10.0
Gloves Outdoor Research VersaLiner Gloves 2.90
Stocking Cap Carhart Wool cap 2.80
Spare Socks SmartWool Mountaineer Socks 5.30
Liner Socks SmartWool Merino Wool Liner Socks 1.60
Packing: 54.80
Backpack Gregory Z65 52.0
Stuff Sack(s) REI X-Small diddy Stuff Sack 0.70
Camp Towel MSR Camp Towel 0.90
Waterproofing Trash Compactor bag 1.00
Essentials Bag Ziplock Bag 0.20
Shelter & Sleeping: 117.05
Sleeping Bag Marmot Sawtooth Membrain 15 degree 52.0
Compression Sack Granite 11L Compression Sack 3.5
Sleeping Pad Thermarest Prolite Plus Pad 24.0
Bivy OR Alpine Bivy (If bugs or weather are issues) 30.50
Bivy Stakes REI Aluminum Hook stakes (No Bivy no stakes) 1.75
Drop Cloth Multiuse Contractor Grade Garbage Bag 4.30
Misquito Net Head net for use when Bivy isnt used 1.00
Cooking & Hydration: 43.80
Water Storage CamelBack 3L Hydration Bladder (100 OZ) 6.70
Water Carrier Platypus 1 lt. bottle 0.90
Water Purification System MSR AutoFlow system - 14.90 oz 0.00
Water Purification Seychelle's Advanced water straw 1.50
Water Purification AquaMira Water Purification Drops 3.00
Bear Canister Bear Vault BV500 - 41 oz 0.00
Food Stuff Sack REI Large Stuff Sack for food 6.00
Cooking Dishes GSI Halulite Micro Dualist 18.00
Stove MSR Pocket Rocket 3.00
Soap Camp Soap in microbottle 2.70
Lighter Bic Mini Lighter 0.50
Condiments Salt and Pepper Shaker 1.50
Essentials: 21.85
Flashlight Black Diamond head lamp 3.20
Toothbrush Toothbrush 1.00
Tooth Paste Crest micro tube 0.75
Toilet Paper Wet wipes 6.00
Hand Sanitizer Generic small high alchohol content 2.30
Floss Mini Floss 0.20
First Aid AMK .3 2.70
Sunscreen Sunscreen - microbottle 1.30
Water Purification Katdyn Water Purification Tablets 6 ea 0.00
Quick Clot 1.00
Duct Tape AMK Survival Duct Tape Role 0.70
Hydropel Foot treatment 1.00
Insect Protection Natrapel 1.70
Fishing & Tech (only when fishing or Tech is an asset) 47.90
Fly rod Cabelas LST 9' 4 piece rod 4.7
Reel Kronic Fly Reel & Pouch 7.90
Tackle Lanyard Mayfly Lanyard Pouch 20.50
Phone iPhone 4.70
Keys 3.30
Charger and Cable Scosche Charger and iPhone Cable 6.80
Consumables: 241.00
Food Total Food (2 days) 128.00
Stove Fuel Canister 13.00
Water Water - 10 liter 100.00
Total Items Worn/Carried (lbs.) 7.00
Total Base Weight (lbs.) 18.13
Total Weight of Consumables (lbs.) 15.06
Total Carried Pack Weight (2)+(3) 33.19
Chris Gilmore
(408) 461-1380
Sent: Monday, April 16, 2012 5:55 AM
Subject: RE: [BackpackingLight] Looking to move towards light backpacking but want to maintain some comfort
Hi Chris,
35 pounds is a respectable figure. If you plan on two weeks out. Food is often the largest part of most lightweight packers weight.
Pack weights are variable, though. This is the weight of the pack at the trail head, as you leave. Base weight is the weight of your pack and gear without food and water (some people count all consumables
so this is not quite as well defined as you might think.) FSO (From Skin Out) weight, is counting everything. I don’t generally use this, but this is more to keep what you are wearing and in your pockets as part of your camping kit.
1) Ultra Reliable. An item cannot fail because it would make camping harder without it. Stoves, tents/tarps, etc must be rock solid.
2) You cannot lose stuff. When you are packed up in the morning, *check* again. Stakes, poles, odd items all need to be accounted for.
3) Small, yet fully functional within size constraints. Example: A tiny Leatherman Micra or Squirt (not both) should handle most chores well. I also carry a pocket knife. But, these are two different tools. One is larger and sharpened to a razor edge, it cuts. The squirt grasps, pry’s, and twists. Two different animals that between them cover everything I will need to do. I don’t mind if I have to beat the small edge to rounded worthless. Everything in my pack is adjusted with the Squirt, soo, it works on everything
lights, fishing reel & lures, etc. (Note that the screw driver was ground similar to the one in the Micra, ie, flat and angled to fit #0-#2 Philips heads.)
Your pack is perhaps one of the big determinants. Big packs breed space glut
and the desire to fill it with odd items you do not need. My first aid kit is a couple band aids. I use fuel as a sterilizer. I use duct tape on blisters and over larger cuts, 
 a bit of toilet paper makes a good pad, wrapped with duct tape to keep it on. It will wash out when I need to clean the wound. I am often out for a week to ten days using a 3000ci pack (Gossamer Gear Miniposa.) Keep your gear small and minimal. Learn how to make do with what you have. Generally, I get everything in a 9-11 pound base load. This is borderline light/ultra light. (10 pounds is considered Ultra Light, 20# is light.) I recently purchased a 2200ci Murmur. I am betting, I can get everything for 5-6 days in it. Again, food is my single biggest weight, often exceeding everything else by double or triple my base weight. Soo, starting with your pack, get a smaller pack. Often you will find sub 1pound packs rated to 25 or 30 pounds. Z-Packs, Gossamer Gear, Six Moons Designs, ULA are some good manufacturers. Light, to ultra light ranging from about 8.5oz to about 24oz. For 7 days, you do not need more. This is dollars outlaid. No help for it, unless you make your own. Note that GG includes a whistle (not real necessary) on their sternum straps. A good waist belt is nice when doing 20+mi per day. It places the majority of the load on or over your hips. There is no sense carrying weight any higher. Load transfer means keeping the pack straight, the load will *transfer* to your hips. Ideally, it should mould to your spine while hiking, but remain flexible enough to bend over and touch your toes without being painful.
Knife- 11.8 oz (1 lbs 10.9 oz total) Too heavy. Buck or Gerber makes locking pocket knives for <2oz
Sheath & Pouch Not Needed.
Sharpener A 1/2 sheet of 2000 grit sandpaper, wrapped around a stick works fine.
Survival Kit & Cord Not Needed. Your pack gear IS your survival kit.
Whistle on lanyard Not Needed. See above.
Fire Steel Bic lighter (2 for the same weight.)
Compass- 3.6 oz Small ones are good, with a good map, you won’t be doing much more than checking “north”. ~.5oz
Mini First Aid Kit- 2.3 oz Not Needed. (Maybe, if you lead a group.)
Baseball Cap- 4 oz A wider brimmed “cowboy” style hat works well.
Sunglasses- 2 oz Not needed
depending on where you hike.
Belt- 3 oz Find a cheap lightweight nylon one, or integrated with your pants.
Hiking Boots- 27 oz Depending on terrain, you could go with a pair of trail runners, About 12-14oz per foot.
-Food Canister- 41 oz (10 lbs total) I won’t comment on food, except to say you need 1-2 pounds per person per day. It will vary.
Jerky - 12 oz
Snack Sack - 3 lbs
Starburst - done
Snack bars - done
Electrolytes -done
Gatorade -done
Crystal Lite -done
Apple Cider -done
Gum -done
Dried Fruit
Peanut Butter ?
Entrées
Breakfast
Oatmeal
Lunch - 4.3 oz ea
Dinner - 4.3 oz ea.
9:30 PM
-Main Compartment - 412.6 oz/25 lbs11.9 oz
Sleeping bag liner- 4.5 oz Not needed. Bring a set of long johns. You can wear them if things get bad, too.
OR Bivy Sack- 30.5 oz (1lbs 14.8 oz) A 9’x11’ tarp can be set up as an A-Frame, bivy sack or lean-to
it weighs about 13oz.
Sleeping bag- 52 oz Get a lighter one. I use a 1#11oz(27oz) down bag.
Compression Sack- 3.5 oz OK. Size can be as important as weight. NEVER compress a synthetic sleeping bag, though.
Exped Pillow- 3.6 oz Not Needed. Even your shoes wrapped in a sweater will work.
Thermarest Pad- 24 oz (1 lbs 9.2 oz) NightLite Pad from Gossamer Gear has about the same R value. It weighs ~10oz.
These items are different. I carry a SVEA 123 with cup, and a grease pot (K-Mart or Stanco,) a 12oz soda bottle(fuel cell) and aluminum foil wind screen/heat shield. With a Ti spoon, this comes to about 38oz. This is considered a bit heavy, but the stove is ultra reliable and fuel efficient for 7-10 days. For short 2 day trips out, I bring an alcohol stove. Saves about a pound or so, about the weight of the stove...
Stove- 3 oz
Gas Qty. 2 - 26 oz
Camp dishes- 18 oz (1 lbs 2.9oz)
Camp Utensils -
First Aid Kit - 1 lbs 4.9 oz Not needed.
MSR Water Filter - 14.9 oz AquaMira drops, plus bottles. Weighs about 1.5oz
Shovel- 28 oz (1 lbs 11.3 oz) Not Needed.
Gregory Z65 pack- 67 oz Much lighter packs out there. Assuming 16oz for light weight. 8oz for UL. 4oz for SUL.
Water Bladder (full)- 110 oz ?? See below

Lumbar Day pack?- 14 oz Not Needed. Your pack will be about as light.
Water Straw- 1.5 oz ?? See below

Camp Towel- .9 Not Needed. A bandana, cotton, weighs about the same.
Trash compacter bag - They are rugged, but a trash bag works better. TC bags or Turkey bags can split.
-Tech
iPhone - 4.7 oz I don’t carry any. They don’t work where I hike.
iPhone Charger -
iPhone Cable - .5 oz
Walkie Talkie(s) -7 oz NEVER! You and your partner or group should never be out of ear shot! Larger groups should be broken down, but proper planning will let you meet at the end of a day. If not, always assume there IS a problem and they are on the trail as planned.
-Clothes Stuff Sack - 5lbs Clothing can be difficult because it depends on conditions. Assuming extra cloths.
1 set of long johns 
 for sleeping in or when things go south. (12oz total)
3 pair of long wool socks (8oz total) 1 pair goes in with sleeping cloths and sleeping bag.
1 down jacket/sweater (12oz)
1 light wool sweater (14oz
1 rain jacket-5.5oz. Full PU coated nylon, not WP/B stuff.
(For >2 week trips only
)
1 long sleeved shirt 
 bug resistant weave.
1 pair of pants 
 Zip off, nylon, with belt around 10oz.
1 pair of jocky shorts
nylon or spandex blend. Support, like any other athletics.
1 pair of shorts or swim trunks. (Used in town to do laundry and for swimming.)
1 set of glove liners. (Use socks if it is really cold.) Glove liners are for paddling canoes.
This will protect you down to about 32F if you are stationary. You will NOT need these hiking. This comes up to about the same weight. For less than 2 weeks, I just bring extra socks, long johns, sweaters, and rain gear. Socks will double as mittens. This is about 3.5 pounds, but will also keep me as well as yours. I always wear a wide brimmed hat. Sheds rain really well, sheds sunlight, acts as a cozy, fans the fire and organizes my pocket gear at night.
Socks
Underwear
Shirt
Shorts/Pants
Jacket 2 lbs 9 oz & Pullover
Gloves & Stocking Cap
-Hygiene - Front Pouch - 1 lbs 7 oz
Wipes - 7 oz Not Needed. Or, dry them out first. I use about 2oz of TP per trip.
Toothbrush - 1 oz I use just the head from Toob brand, weighs about 1/3oz
Tooth paste - .75 oz Not Needed. Or as Rosaleen suggests, dry dots of it.
Map Pouch & Map - 8 oz You can use a baggie and the sections you are going to hike. Make copies and cut the hell out of them, 1/2oz.
-Supplies - Orange - 3lbs
Survival Kit Not Needed.
Soft Water Bottle(s) ??See note below

Head Light >>See note below

Flash Light >>See note below

Extra Dry Bag Not Needed.
Batteries 1 set 2016>>See note below.., 1 set 2032 for longer trips.
Straps Not Needed.
Stakes Qty. 5 Good, count out exactly what you need.
Fire Tinder Not Needed. Or, bring a piece of candle
works as well with a lighter.
Hand sanitizer (accelerant) Not Needed. You already have your own germs, ha ha. Some brands do not burn that well.
Tape 5-6’ of duct tape? Yes.
Multi-tool Usually a tiny Squirt, as discussed above.
550 Cord - 8 oz 50’ of 1.5mm line and a small, ti, Niteize s-biner. (Bear line I assume.) 1.75oz
Camp Soap ?? A tiny bottle of ivory dish soap will last about a month one drop at a time. Small amounts!
-On My Person 4 lb 6.7 oz (??duplicate?)
Knife- 11.8 oz (1 lbs 10.9 oz total)
Sheath & Pouch
Sharpener
Survival Kit & Cord
Whistle on lanyard
Fire Steel
Compass- 3.6 oz
Mini First Aid Kit- 2.3 oz
Baseball Cap- 4 oz
Sunglasses- 2 oz
Belt- 3 oz
Hiking Boots- 27 oz
-Food Canister- 41 oz (10 lbs total)
Jerky - 12 oz
Snack Sack - 3 lbs
Starburst - done
Snack bars - done
Electrolytes -done
Gatorade -done
Crystal Lite -done
Apple Cider -done
Gum -done
Dried Fruit
Peanut Butter ?
Entrées
Breakfast
Oatmeal
Note??: Water is a problem and is highly variable. I usually bring 2-20oz gatoraid bottles or the like. Anything with a wide mouth. They fill easily and will fit a steripen. For short trips into the High Peaks area in NY, it is better to have the stripen because water sources are about 5-6 hours apart. I will have drained both bottles and need water NOW. Generally I use AquaMira drops, though. The AM bottles will last for a month on the trail. And they are quite light. You can repackage them if needed for shorter 1 week trips. Generally not worth all the hassle, though. Filters are a hassle to set up and fill. Mostly, the springs and small creeks are plentiful, but, small. And they require larger containers, meaning I have to carry more between watering holes. I tried filters several times. They just don’t work all that well for me
lazy I guess. Backup is always boiling. Warm coffee, tea, and even Kool-Aid is fine, but not really great on a 80F day.
Note >>: Lighting is more of a personal choice. I do not like head lamps. People look at me and blind me. Generally, I use a small “Impulse” computerized light with timed off. This takes 2016 batteries. I mention this because rather than take a spare set of batteries, I take a second light. At a few grams more weight, I have a back up and it comes in handy for around camp. This is a $1 special (I picked up 20 of them) at a craft store. I stick it in a tiny plastic baggie. If needed, I can open it up and remove the batteries for the Impulse. It throws about 7-8 lumens of light, plenty for any darkness adapted eyes. Petzel’s E-light is my hiking light. It will last 16 hours or so. It only throws about 10-12lumens of light, but again, is fine for darkness adapted eyes. More, and I lose whatever adjustment my eyes have built up. A larger light bounces off the leaves or rock face a LOT. This reflection means you need a bigger light. With a bigger light, you get more reflection
needing a bigger light
 and more reflection
 If I am hiking after dark (doesn’t happen too often, maybe 5-10% of my nights out do I need it) I wait till I stumble, then clip it to my shoulder strap, NOT my head. The somewhat shorter angle will show roots and rocks in my path better. I do carry an extra set of batteries for this, not for week long trips, but for longer distance hikes. For >3 weeks, I just bring a second E-light. Both the Impulse and E-light are waterproof and have variable settings. I use the lowest setting I can, knowing that reflected light is what we see, but it is also what blinds. I really hate headlamps because of the high outputs, and, invariably, the person using them forgets and looks at me while we speak. Ouch

My thoughts only . . .
jdm
James D. Marco
302 Mary Lane
Ithaca, NY 14850
607-273-9132 (land), 607-220-9969(cell)
OK folks be kind, i'm slowly moving towards ultra light with a short stop (1 season) in light as I evaluate which gear I can do without and what gear needs to be replaced. Please provide feedback on what you think can be left behind or what should be swapped out first.
-On My Person 4 lb 6.7 oz
Knife- 11.8 oz (1 lbs 10.9 oz total)
Sheath & Pouch
Sharpener
Survival Kit & Cord
Whistle on lanyard
Fire Steel
Compass- 3.6 oz
Mini First Aid Kit- 2.3 oz
Baseball Cap- 4 oz
Sunglasses- 2 oz
Belt- 3 oz
Hiking Boots- 27 oz
-Food Canister- 41 oz (10 lbs total)
Jerky - 12 oz
Snack Sack - 3 lbs
Starburst - done
Snack bars - done
Electrolytes -done
Gatorade -done
Crystal Lite -done
Apple Cider -done
Gum -done
Dried Fruit
Peanut Butter ?
Entrées
Breakfast
Oatmeal
Lunch - 4.3 oz ea
Dinner - 4.3 oz ea.
9:30 PM
-Main Compartment - 412.6 oz/25 lbs11.9 oz
Sleeping bag liner- 4.5 oz
OR Bivy Sack- 30.5 oz (1lbs 14.8 oz)
Sleeping bag- 52 oz
Compression Sack- 3.5 oz
Exped Pillow- 3.6 oz
Thermarest Pad- 24 oz (1 lbs 9.2 oz)
Stove- 3 oz
Gas Qty. 2 - 26 oz
Camp dishes- 18 oz (1 lbs 2.9oz)
Camp Utensils -
First Aid Kit - 1 lbs 4.9 oz
MSR Water Filter - 14.9 oz
Shovel- 28 oz (1 lbs 11.3 oz)
Gregory Z65 pack- 67 oz
Water Bladder (full)- 110 oz
Lumbar Day pack?- 14 oz
Water Straw- 1.5 oz
Camp Towel- .9
Trash compacter bag -
-Tech
iPhone - 4.7 oz
iPhone Charger -
iPhone Cable - .5 oz
Walkie Talkie(s) -7 oz
-Clothes Stuff Sack - 5lbs
Socks
Underwear
Shirt
Shorts/Pants
Jacket 2 lbs 9 oz & Pullover
Gloves & Stocking Cap
-Hygiene - Front Pouch - 1 lbs 7 oz
Wipes - 7 oz
Toothbrush - 1 oz
Tooth paste - .75 oz
Map Pouch & Map - 8 oz
-Supplies - Orange - 3lbs
Survival Kit
Soft Water Bottle(s)
Head Light
Flash Light
Extra Dry Bag
Batteries
Straps
Stakes Qty. 5
Fire Tinder
Hand sanitizer (accelerant)
Tape
Multi-tool
550 Cord - 8 oz
Camp Soap
-On My Person 4 lb 6.7 oz
Knife- 11.8 oz (1 lbs 10.9 oz total)
Sheath & Pouch
Sharpener
Survival Kit & Cord
Whistle on lanyard
Fire Steel
Compass- 3.6 oz
Mini First Aid Kit- 2.3 oz
Baseball Cap- 4 oz
Sunglasses- 2 oz
Belt- 3 oz
Hiking Boots- 27 oz
-Food Canister- 41 oz (10 lbs total)
Jerky - 12 oz
Snack Sack - 3 lbs
Starburst - done
Snack bars - done
Electrolytes -done
Gatorade -done
Crystal Lite -done
Apple Cider -done
Gum -done
Dried Fruit
Peanut Butter ?
Entrées
Breakfast
Oatmeal
Chris Gilmore
(408) 461-1380
Segraves
2012-04-29 13:36:38 UTC
Permalink
Hi Chris,
 
Three suggestions and a question:
 
Keep a separate list for the stuff you used and the stuff you didn't.  Focus on whether you really need the stuff that you didn't use.  Ask yourself what will happen if you find yourself without it.
 
For things that are divisible (food, soap, etc.), make a note as to how much of it you used. Next time, just take the amount you need.  (Dropper bottles are great for things like soap and Deet.)
 
For particularly heavy items that you are reluctant to give up, try taking along the lighter alternative *in addition* to the heavy item.  See if you can get by with just the lighter one.
 
And the question, does the fly rod include a case?  If so, kudos on finding a light one - what's it made of?
 
Best,
 
Bill


--- On Sat, 4/28/12, Chris Gilmore <chris_gilmore2001-/***@public.gmane.org> wrote:

Well I finished my trip and have gotten to step II now. I went through everything I used and figured out a lot of stuff I could do without as well as a few places I could do dual duty. Here is what I came up with for phase II. Keep in mind there will be a Phase III, IV and V.
Chris Gilmore
2012-04-29 16:22:29 UTC
Permalink
God suggestions and that will be my approach in my next trip.

As for the fly to yes it has a case but I only take it in the material bag it uses to separate the pieces and ties shut. It weighs 2 oz and I included it in the rod weight. My buddy just uses a rubber band for his but he has a crappy rod for back packing and I cant afford two.

Thanks
Chris Gilmore
(408) 461-1380
Post by Jim Marco
Hi Chris,
Keep a separate list for the stuff you used and the stuff you didn't. Focus on whether you really need the stuff that you didn't use. Ask yourself what will happen if you find yourself without it.
For things that are divisible (food, soap, etc.), make a note as to how much of it you used. Next time, just take the amount you need. (Dropper bottles are great for things like soap and Deet.)
For particularly heavy items that you are reluctant to give up, try taking along the lighter alternative *in addition* to the heavy item. See if you can get by with just the lighter one.
And the question, does the fly rod include a case? If so, kudos on finding a light one - what's it made of?
Best,
Bill
Well I finished my trip and have gotten to step II now. I went through everything I used and figured out a lot of stuff I could do without as well as a few places I could do dual duty. Here is what I came up with for phase II. Keep in mind there will be a Phase III, IV and V.
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Randy
2012-04-28 21:38:38 UTC
Permalink
how many weeks were you aout and how many people was all that for?
thanks,
randy
Post by Chris Gilmore
Well I finished my trip and have gotten to step II now. I went
through everything I used and figured out a lot of stuff I could do
without as well as a few places I could do dual duty. Here is what I
came up with for phase II. Keep in mind there will be a Phase III,
IV and V. Eventually I will upgrade my sleeping bag and possibly my
backpack itself once I get the weight down low enough. Keep in mind
i started out with my total pack weight last go around at 48 lbs.
(yes I packed too much food & had a ton of redundancy).
Item: Example: Weight (oz)
Clothing Worn: 60.10
Shirt Cotton button up with collar 5.00
Pants Columbia Convertible Pants 10.80
Underwear Hanes Boxer Briefs 2.90
Socks SmartWool Mountaineer Socks 5.30
Belt Cinch Woven Belt 3.50
Liner Socks SmartWool Merino Wool Liner Socks 1.60
Sun Hat/Cap Baseball Cap 4.00
Shoes Keen Klamath Hiking Boots 27.00
Other Items Worn/Carried: 26.30
Watch Citizen Eco-Drive 6.50
Sunglasses Oakley FLAK Sun Glasses 2.00
Map BlackOps map pouch 8.00
Compass Brunton 8099 Eclipse 3.60
Fishing License & Wallet License, DL, ATM & Cash 2.00
Camera Sony W510 4.20
Knife and Survival 25.63
Knife Esee 6 11.90
Sheath & Pouch Esee 6 kydex sheath and pouch 5.70
Sharpener Redi-Edge Tactical 0.80
Paracord 1.00
Whistle on lanyard 0.10
Fire Steel Lite my Fire Army Fire steel 1.70
Mini Survival Kit tin container 1.20
Flash light Maglite Micro + AAA Battery 0.80
Fishing Kit 0.20
Button Compass 0.00
Signal Mirror 0.30
Water Purification AquaMira Water Purification Tablets 2 0.03
Fire Starter 0.05
Fire Tinder 0.05
Moleskin 0.00
Emergency Razor Knife 0.20
Emergency Saw 0.10
Tin Foil 0.60
Water Bag 0.30
Safety Pin 0.00
Pain Killer Aleve 8 ea 0.00
Snare Wire 0.03
Fishing line 0.03
magnifier 0.00
Duct Tape 0.00
sewing needle 0.00
paper write in rain 0.03
pencil Mini-pencil 0.03
Can Opener P38 0.5
Extra Clothing: 52.60
Rain Gear Only Pants (Assuming Down Jacket is Water Proof) 6.00
Crocs Crocs clogs for water walking 9.00
Insulating Layer Down Jacket 15.0
Polyproplene Layer Polypropolene Long Johns 10.0
Gloves Outdoor Research VersaLiner Gloves 2.90
Stocking Cap Carhart Wool cap 2.80
Spare Socks SmartWool Mountaineer Socks 5.30
Liner Socks SmartWool Merino Wool Liner Socks 1.60
Packing: 54.80
Backpack Gregory Z65 52.0
Stuff Sack(s) REI X-Small diddy Stuff Sack 0.70
Camp Towel MSR Camp Towel 0.90
Waterproofing Trash Compactor bag 1.00
Essentials Bag Ziplock Bag 0.20
Shelter & Sleeping: 117.05
Sleeping Bag Marmot Sawtooth Membrain 15 degree 52.0
Compression Sack Granite 11L Compression Sack 3.5
Sleeping Pad Thermarest Prolite Plus Pad 24.0
Bivy OR Alpine Bivy (If bugs or weather are issues) 30.50
Bivy Stakes REI Aluminum Hook stakes (No Bivy no stakes) 1.75
Drop Cloth Multiuse Contractor Grade Garbage Bag 4.30
Misquito Net Head net for use when Bivy isnt used 1.00
Cooking & Hydration: 43.80
Water Storage CamelBack 3L Hydration Bladder (100 OZ) 6.70
Water Carrier Platypus 1 lt. bottle 0.90
Water Purification System MSR AutoFlow system - 14.90 oz 0.00
Water Purification Seychelle's Advanced water straw 1.50
Water Purification AquaMira Water Purification Drops 3.00
Bear Canister Bear Vault BV500 - 41 oz 0.00
Food Stuff Sack REI Large Stuff Sack for food 6.00
Cooking Dishes GSI Halulite Micro Dualist 18.00
Stove MSR Pocket Rocket 3.00
Soap Camp Soap in microbottle 2.70
Lighter Bic Mini Lighter 0.50
Condiments Salt and Pepper Shaker 1.50
Essentials: 21.85
Flashlight Black Diamond head lamp 3.20
Toothbrush Toothbrush 1.00
Tooth Paste Crest micro tube 0.75
Toilet Paper Wet wipes 6.00
Hand Sanitizer Generic small high alchohol content 2.30
Floss Mini Floss 0.20
First Aid AMK .3 2.70
Sunscreen Sunscreen - microbottle 1.30
Water Purification Katdyn Water Purification Tablets 6 ea 0.00
Quick Clot 1.00
Duct Tape AMK Survival Duct Tape Role 0.70
Hydropel Foot treatment 1.00
Insect Protection Natrapel 1.70
Fishing & Tech (only when fishing or Tech is an asset) 47.90
Fly rod Cabelas LST 9' 4 piece rod 4.7
Reel Kronic Fly Reel & Pouch 7.90
Tackle Lanyard Mayfly Lanyard Pouch 20.50
Phone iPhone 4.70
Keys 3.30
Charger and Cable Scosche Charger and iPhone Cable 6.80
Consumables: 241.00
Food Total Food (2 days) 128.00
Stove Fuel Canister 13.00
Water Water - 10 liter 100.00
Total Items Worn/Carried (lbs.) 7.00
Total Base Weight (lbs.) 18.13
Total Weight of Consumables (lbs.) 15.06
Total Carried Pack Weight (2)+(3) 33.19
Chris Gilmore
(408) 461-1380
Sent: Monday, April 16, 2012 5:55 AM
Subject: RE: [BackpackingLight] Looking to move towards light
backpacking but want to maintain some comfort
Hi Chris,
35 pounds is a respectable figure. If you plan on
two weeks out. Food is often the largest part of most lightweight
packers weight.
Pack weights are variable, though. This is the weight of the pack at
the trail head, as you leave. Base weight is the weight of your pack
and gear without food and water (some people count all consumables…
so this is not quite as well defined as you might think.) FSO (From
Skin Out) weight, is counting everything. I don’t generally use
this, but this is more to keep what you are wearing and in your
pockets as part of your camping kit.
Generally, I would suggest removing redundancy as
others have said. Indeed, one of the primary goals of light weight
packing is to eliminate everything that you do not use. Example,
about half of the time, EVERY item I carry will be used over single
24 hour period. That also means there is almost NO redundancy. No
1) Ultra Reliable. An item cannot fail because it would make
camping harder without it. Stoves, tents/tarps, etc must be rock
solid.
2) You cannot lose stuff. When you are packed up in the
morning, *check* again. Stakes, poles, odd items all need to be
accounted for.
3) Small, yet fully functional within size constraints.
Example: A tiny Leatherman Micra or Squirt (not both) should handle
most chores well. I also carry a pocket knife. But, these are two
different tools. One is larger and sharpened to a razor edge, it
cuts. The squirt grasps, pry’s, and twists. Two different animals
that between them cover everything I will need to do. I don’t mind
if I have to beat the small edge to rounded worthless. Everything
in my pack is adjusted with the Squirt, soo, it works on everything…
lights, fishing reel & lures, etc. (Note that the screw driver was
ground similar to the one in the Micra, ie, flat and angled to fit
#0-#2 Philips heads.)
Your pack is perhaps one of the big determinants. Big packs breed
space glut…and the desire to fill it with odd items you do not need.
My first aid kit is a couple band aids. I use fuel as a sterilizer.
I use duct tape on blisters and over larger cuts, … a bit of toilet
paper makes a good pad, wrapped with duct tape to keep it on. It
will wash out when I need to clean the wound. I am often out for a
week to ten days using a 3000ci pack (Gossamer Gear Miniposa.) Keep
your gear small and minimal. Learn how to make do with what you
have. Generally, I get everything in a 9-11 pound base load. This is
borderline light/ultra light. (10 pounds is considered Ultra Light,
20# is light.) I recently purchased a 2200ci Murmur. I am betting,
I can get everything for 5-6 days in it. Again, food is my single
biggest weight, often exceeding everything else by double or triple
my base weight. Soo, starting with your pack, get a smaller pack.
Often you will find sub 1pound packs rated to 25 or 30 pounds. Z-
Packs, Gossamer Gear, Six Moons Designs, ULA are some good
manufacturers. Light, to ultra light ranging from about 8.5oz to
about 24oz. For 7 days, you do not need more. This is dollars
outlaid. No help for it, unless you make your own. Note that GG
includes a whistle (not real necessary) on their sternum straps. A
good waist belt is nice when doing 20+mi per day. It places the
majority of the load on or over your hips. There is no sense
carrying weight any higher. Load transfer means keeping the pack
straight, the load will *transfer* to your hips. Ideally, it should
mould to your spine while hiking, but remain flexible enough to bend
over and touch your toes without being painful.
Knife- 11.8 oz (1 lbs 10.9 oz total) Too heavy. Buck or
Gerber makes locking pocket knives for <2oz
Sheath & Pouch Not Needed.
Sharpener
A 1/2 sheet of 2000 grit sandpaper, wrapped around a stick works fine.
Survival Kit & Cord Not
Needed. Your pack gear IS your survival kit.
Whistle on lanyard Not Needed. See above.
Fire
Steel
Bic lighter (2 for the same weight.)
Compass- 3.6 oz Small
ones are good, with a good map, you won’t be doing much more than
checking “north”. ~.5oz
Mini First Aid Kit- 2.3 oz Not
Needed. (Maybe, if you lead a group.)
Baseball Cap- 4 oz A
wider brimmed “cowboy” style hat works well.
Sunglasses- 2 oz Not
needed…depending on where you hike.
Belt- 3
oz Find a
cheap lightweight nylon one, or integrated with your pants.
Hiking Boots- 27 oz
Depending on terrain, you could go with a pair of trail runners,
About 12-14oz per foot.
-Food Canister- 41 oz (10 lbs total) I won’t comment on
food, except to say you need 1-2 pounds per person per day. It will
vary.
Jerky - 12 oz
Snack Sack - 3 lbs
Starburst - done
Snack bars - done
Electrolytes -done
Gatorade -done
Crystal Lite -done
Apple Cider -done
Gum -done
Dried Fruit
Peanut Butter ?
Entrées
Breakfast
Oatmeal
Lunch - 4.3 oz ea
Dinner - 4.3 oz ea.
9:30 PM
-Main Compartment - 412.6 oz/25 lbs11.9 oz
Sleeping bag liner- 4.5 oz Not needed.
Bring a set of long johns. You can wear them if things get bad, too.
OR Bivy Sack- 30.5 oz (1lbs 14.8 oz) A 9’x11’ tarp can be
set up as an A-Frame, bivy sack or lean-to…it weighs about 13oz.
Sleeping bag- 52 oz Get a
lighter one. I use a 1#11oz(27oz) down bag.
Compression Sack- 3.5 oz OK. Size can be
as important as weight. NEVER compress a synthetic sleeping bag,
though.
Exped Pillow- 3.6 oz Not
Needed. Even your shoes wrapped in a sweater will work.
Thermarest Pad- 24 oz (1 lbs 9.2 oz) NightLite Pad from
Gossamer Gear has about the same R value. It weighs ~10oz.
These items are different. I carry a
SVEA 123 with cup, and a grease pot (K-Mart or Stanco,) a 12oz soda
bottle(fuel cell) and aluminum foil wind screen/heat shield. With a
Ti spoon, this comes to about 38oz. This is considered a bit heavy,
but the stove is ultra reliable and fuel efficient for 7-10 days.
For short 2 day trips out, I bring an alcohol stove. Saves about a
pound or so, about the weight of the stove...
Stove- 3 oz
Gas Qty. 2 - 26 oz
Camp dishes- 18 oz (1 lbs 2.9oz)
Camp Utensils -
First Aid Kit - 1 lbs 4.9 oz Not needed.
MSR Water Filter - 14.9 oz AquaMira
drops, plus bottles. Weighs about 1.5oz
Shovel- 28 oz (1 lbs 11.3 oz) Not Needed.
Gregory Z65 pack- 67 oz Much lighter
packs out there. Assuming 16oz for light weight. 8oz for UL. 4oz for
SUL.
Water Bladder (full)- 110 oz ?? See below…
Lumbar Day pack?- 14 oz Not Needed.
Your pack will be about as light.
Water Straw- 1.5 oz ?? See
below…
Camp Towel- .9 Not
Needed. A bandana, cotton, weighs about the same.
Trash compacter bag - They are
rugged, but a trash bag works better. TC bags or Turkey bags can
split.
-Tech
iPhone - 4.7 oz I
don’t carry any. They don’t work where I hike.
iPhone Charger -
iPhone Cable - .5 oz
Walkie Talkie(s) -7 oz NEVER!
You and your partner or group should never be out of ear shot!
Larger groups should be broken down, but proper planning will let
you meet at the end of a day. If not, always assume there IS a
problem and they are on the trail as planned.
-Clothes Stuff Sack - 5lbs Clothing can
be difficult because it depends on conditions. Assuming extra cloths.
1
set of long johns … for sleeping in or when things go south. (12oz
total)
3
pair of long wool socks (8oz total) 1 pair goes in with sleeping
cloths and sleeping bag.
1
down jacket/sweater (12oz)
1
light wool sweater (14oz
1
rain jacket-5.5oz. Full PU coated nylon, not WP/B stuff.
(For
2 week trips only…)
1
long sleeved shirt … bug resistant weave.
1
pair of pants … Zip off, nylon, with belt around 10oz.
1
pair of jocky shorts…nylon or spandex blend. Support, like any
other athletics.
1
pair of shorts or swim trunks. (Used in town to do laundry and for
swimming.)
1
set of glove liners. (Use socks if it is really cold.) Glove liners
are for paddling canoes.
This will protect you down to about 32F if you are
stationary. You will NOT need these hiking. This comes up to about
the same weight. For less than 2 weeks, I just bring extra socks,
long johns, sweaters, and rain gear. Socks will double as mittens.
This is about 3.5 pounds, but will also keep me as well as yours. I
always wear a wide brimmed hat. Sheds rain really well, sheds
sunlight, acts as a cozy, fans the fire and organizes my pocket gear
at night.
Socks
Underwear
Shirt
Shorts/Pants
Jacket 2 lbs 9 oz & Pullover
Gloves & Stocking Cap
-Hygiene - Front Pouch - 1 lbs 7 oz
Wipes - 7 oz
Not Needed. Or, dry them out first. I use about 2oz of TP per trip.
Toothbrush - 1 oz I use
just the head from Toob brand, weighs about 1/3oz
Tooth paste - .75 oz Not
Needed. Or as Rosaleen suggests, dry dots of it.
Map Pouch & Map - 8 oz You can use a
baggie and the sections you are going to hike. Make copies and cut
the hell out of them, 1/2oz.
-Supplies - Orange - 3lbs
Survival
Kit Not
Needed.
Soft Water Bottle(s) ??See
note below…
Head Light
See note below…
Flash
Light
See note below…
Extra Dry Bag
Not Needed.
Batteries
1 set
2016>>See note below.., 1 set 2032 for longer trips.
Straps
Not Needed.
Stakes Qty. 5
Good, count out exactly what you need.
Fire Tinder
Not Needed. Or, bring a piece of candle…works as well with a lighter.
Hand sanitizer (accelerant) Not Needed. You
already have your own germs, ha ha. Some brands do not burn that well.
Tape
5
-6’ of duct tape? Yes.
Multi-
tool
Usually a tiny Squirt, as discussed above.
550 Cord - 8 oz
50’ of 1.5mm line and a small, ti, Niteize s-biner. (Bear line I
assume.) 1.75oz
Camp Soap ??
A tiny bottle of ivory dish soap will last about a month one drop at
a time. Small amounts!
-On My Person 4 lb 6.7 oz (??duplicate?)
Knife- 11.8 oz (1 lbs 10.9 oz total)
Sheath & Pouch
Sharpener
Survival Kit & Cord
Whistle on lanyard
Fire Steel
Compass- 3.6 oz
Mini First Aid Kit- 2.3 oz
Baseball Cap- 4 oz
Sunglasses- 2 oz
Belt- 3 oz
Hiking Boots- 27 oz
-Food Canister- 41 oz (10 lbs total)
Jerky - 12 oz
Snack Sack - 3 lbs
Starburst - done
Snack bars - done
Electrolytes -done
Gatorade -done
Crystal Lite -done
Apple Cider -done
Gum -done
Dried Fruit
Peanut Butter ?
Entrées
Breakfast
Oatmeal
Note??: Water is a problem and is highly variable. I usually bring
2-20oz gatoraid bottles or the like. Anything with a wide mouth.
They fill easily and will fit a steripen. For short trips into the
High Peaks area in NY, it is better to have the stripen because
water sources are about 5-6 hours apart. I will have drained both
bottles and need water NOW. Generally I use AquaMira drops, though.
The AM bottles will last for a month on the trail. And they are
quite light. You can repackage them if needed for shorter 1 week
trips. Generally not worth all the hassle, though. Filters are a
hassle to set up and fill. Mostly, the springs and small creeks are
plentiful, but, small. And they require larger containers, meaning I
have to carry more between watering holes. I tried filters several
times. They just don’t work all that well for me…lazy I guess.
Backup is always boiling. Warm coffee, tea, and even Kool-Aid is
fine, but not really great on a 80F day.
Note >>: Lighting is more of a personal choice. I do not like head
lamps. People look at me and blind me. Generally, I use a small
“Impulse” computerized light with timed off. This takes 2016
batteries. I mention this because rather than take a spare set of
batteries, I take a second light. At a few grams more weight, I have
a back up and it comes in handy for around camp. This is a $1
special (I picked up 20 of them) at a craft store. I stick it in a
tiny plastic baggie. If needed, I can open it up and remove the
batteries for the Impulse. It throws about 7-8 lumens of light,
plenty for any darkness adapted eyes. Petzel’s E-light is my hiking
light. It will last 16 hours or so. It only throws about 10-12lumens
of light, but again, is fine for darkness adapted eyes. More, and I
lose whatever adjustment my eyes have built up. A larger light
bounces off the leaves or rock face a LOT. This reflection means you
need a bigger light. With a bigger light, you get more reflection…
needing a bigger light… and more reflection… If I am hiking after
dark (doesn’t happen too often, maybe 5-10% of my nights out do I
need it) I wait till I stumble, then clip it to my shoulder strap,
NOT my head. The somewhat shorter angle will show roots and rocks in
my path better. I do carry an extra set of batteries for this, not
for week long trips, but for longer distance hikes. For >3 weeks, I
just bring a second E-light. Both the Impulse and E-light are
waterproof and have variable settings. I use the lowest setting I
can, knowing that reflected light is what we see, but it is also
what blinds. I really hate headlamps because of the high outputs,
and, invariably, the person using them forgets and looks at me while
we speak. Ouch…
My thoughts only . . .
jdm
James D. Marco
302 Mary Lane
Ithaca, NY 14850
607-273-9132 (land), 607-220-9969(cell)
OK folks be kind, i'm slowly moving towards ultra light with a
short stop (1 season) in light as I evaluate which gear I can do
without and what gear needs to be replaced. Please provide feedback
on what you think can be left behind or what should be swapped out
first.
-On My Person 4 lb 6.7 oz
Knife- 11.8 oz (1 lbs 10.9 oz total)
Sheath & Pouch
Sharpener
Survival Kit & Cord
Whistle on lanyard
Fire Steel
Compass- 3.6 oz
Mini First Aid Kit- 2.3 oz
Baseball Cap- 4 oz
Sunglasses- 2 oz
Belt- 3 oz
Hiking Boots- 27 oz
-Food Canister- 41 oz (10 lbs total)
Jerky - 12 oz
Snack Sack - 3 lbs
Starburst - done
Snack bars - done
Electrolytes -done
Gatorade -done
Crystal Lite -done
Apple Cider -done
Gum -done
Dried Fruit
Peanut Butter ?
Entrées
Breakfast
Oatmeal
Lunch - 4.3 oz ea
Dinner - 4.3 oz ea.
9:30 PM
-Main Compartment - 412.6 oz/25 lbs11.9 oz
Sleeping bag liner- 4.5 oz
OR Bivy Sack- 30.5 oz (1lbs 14.8 oz)
Sleeping bag- 52 oz
Compression Sack- 3.5 oz
Exped Pillow- 3.6 oz
Thermarest Pad- 24 oz (1 lbs 9.2 oz)
Stove- 3 oz
Gas Qty. 2 - 26 oz
Camp dishes- 18 oz (1 lbs 2.9oz)
Camp Utensils -
First Aid Kit - 1 lbs 4.9 oz
MSR Water Filter - 14.9 oz
Shovel- 28 oz (1 lbs 11.3 oz)
Gregory Z65 pack- 67 oz
Water Bladder (full)- 110 oz
Lumbar Day pack?- 14 oz
Water Straw- 1.5 oz
Camp Towel- .9
Trash compacter bag -
-Tech
iPhone - 4.7 oz
iPhone Charger -
iPhone Cable - .5 oz
Walkie Talkie(s) -7 oz
-Clothes Stuff Sack - 5lbs
Socks
Underwear
Shirt
Shorts/Pants
Jacket 2 lbs 9 oz & Pullover
Gloves & Stocking Cap
-Hygiene - Front Pouch - 1 lbs 7 oz
Wipes - 7 oz
Toothbrush - 1 oz
Tooth paste - .75 oz
Map Pouch & Map - 8 oz
-Supplies - Orange - 3lbs
Survival Kit
Soft Water Bottle(s)
Head Light
Flash Light
Extra Dry Bag
Batteries
Straps
Stakes Qty. 5
Fire Tinder
Hand sanitizer (accelerant)
Tape
Multi-tool
550 Cord - 8 oz
Camp Soap
-On My Person 4 lb 6.7 oz
Knife- 11.8 oz (1 lbs 10.9 oz total)
Sheath & Pouch
Sharpener
Survival Kit & Cord
Whistle on lanyard
Fire Steel
Compass- 3.6 oz
Mini First Aid Kit- 2.3 oz
Baseball Cap- 4 oz
Sunglasses- 2 oz
Belt- 3 oz
Hiking Boots- 27 oz
-Food Canister- 41 oz (10 lbs total)
Jerky - 12 oz
Snack Sack - 3 lbs
Starburst - done
Snack bars - done
Electrolytes -done
Gatorade -done
Crystal Lite -done
Apple Cider -done
Gum -done
Dried Fruit
Peanut Butter ?
Entrées
Breakfast
Oatmeal
Chris Gilmore
(408) 461-1380
Cara Lin Bridgman
2012-04-30 05:50:59 UTC
Permalink
ouch! (but very funny!)
how many weeks were you out and how many people was all that for?
Randy
2012-04-30 12:58:28 UTC
Permalink
i'm sorry if that came off wrong. i was that person when i first
started, even going so far as to buy something called a 'kitchen
sink'. having packed so much for so far, i now hardly pack anything at
all, which i suppose is what this list is about.
r
ouch! (but very funny!)
how many weeks were you out and how many people was all that for?
Chris Gilmore
2012-04-30 06:19:36 UTC
Permalink
I'm glad you enjoyed Cara!

Thanks
Chris Gilmore
(408) 461-1380
ouch! (but very funny!)
how many weeks were you out and how many people was all that for?
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Jim Marco
2012-04-30 17:23:26 UTC
Permalink
Hi Chris,
About 30lb pack load is where I was at when I joined this list. About 10lbs was lost buying lighter gear. Flashlight, fishing rod & reel, other stuff too. Another 10lbs was lost in redundant or “just in case” gear. Sleeping bags are a big dollar item. A good 32F/0C bag will cost ~350-400 dollars. Packs will run about 150-$200 for ~16oz. Tents will run about $250 in the 24-32oz range for two people.
You gear is still way too heavy. Food is generally accepted to be fine if you have 2lb per day per person. This depends on a lot of stuff, but at 2lb PDPP will cover everything. For myself, I often carry 2-3lb for a weekend, or, about 1-1.5lb per day. For the first few days (about three) I am never that interested in eating
just fuel for the trail. After that I like good cooked meals, but one per day does fine. Breakfast is usually oatmeal, cream of wheat or the like. Lots of calories. I plan on 5 minutes every hour as a rest break, usually a drink and part of a trail bar between 0800-0900 to about 1600 or so. Hiking up hills and down valleys I start looking for a camp spot about then. By 1600 I will usually have found one. And can start setting up camp. Nothing is urgent. I often pass by many that look well used, preferring a more sheltered spot, sometimes with a lean-to, sometimes not. Not real fussy about that. Firewood, a small rise with lots of trees, usually means little wind and more privacy.

Your pack, tent and sleeping bag are needed. Soo lets start there as an example.

Backpack

Gregory Z65

52.0

Sleeping Bag

Marmot Sawtooth Membrain 15 degree

52.0

Compression Sack

Granite 11L Compression Sack

3.5

Sleeping Pad

Thermarest Prolite Plus Pad

24.0

Bivy

OR Alpine Bivy (If bugs or weather are issues)

30.50

Bivy Stakes

REI Aluminum Hook stakes (No Bivy no stakes)

1.75

Drop Cloth

Multiuse Contractor Grade Garbage Bag

4.30

Misquito Net

Head net for use when Bivy isnt used

1.00

Total: 169.05
This is a lot for just hauling and sleeping. I like my comfort, but
 This is roughly equivalent from my gear.
Marco:
Backpack: 8.5
Sleeping Bag 29oz
Down sweater 12oz
Dry bag 5.1oz
Sleeping pad 10.5oz
Tarp 16oz
Stakes 1.2oz
Bug tent 16oz
Stakes 1.2oz
Total: 99.5
The backpack is light and small with no frame. The pad is cut and folds into the pad pockets as a frame, not taking extra space inside. But, you have to bring a pack. I bring the lightest single purpose pack that will handle the load I anticipate (about 20 pounds.) The pad does double duty as a sleeping pad and a pack frame. The sleeping bag is a single purpose item. Quilts don’t work for me, so, I the bag is a bit heavier than need be. It is lighter than would be needed without the down sweater, though. The down sweater extends the range of the sleeping bag about 8-10 degrees. Soo, it does double duty as sleeping wear and as camp wear. Both are packed in the same compression bag in the morning...costs a bit of weight, but saves volume. The bag and down sweater are both 750-800 fill down. They pack loosely into the small bag in the bottom of the pack. The tarp is rolled tightly and inserted into the pack front pouch. Again, stiffening the pack. Same for the bug tent, but this only goes in bug season. I do not bother with a ground cloth. I choose my campsite fairly carefully, though. Wet ground means an early stop. Sheltering under the larger tarp I carry means the ground can drain and dry a bit. I usually carry a 9’x11’, but have made several smaller and larger ones. In summer often I will bring the 9’x7’, but in spring I bring the larger one and can fold one side under me if the ground is soaked. So again, the tarp pretty much is doubling as a ground cloth, too. For stakes, I use shepherds hooks ti stakes. They vary between .18oz and .22oz. No double duty for these. The bug tent I use when out paddling. Near the water, I often get lots of the nasty critters. It has a ground cloth, too.

Anyway, one of the important things that you learn about camping and backpacking is that most really successful people use systems. They do not typically carry heavy loads, nor, UL loads. Load is far less important than making selections that work together. Working a system of packing, will generally result in a lighter overall load. A system of packing, generally means a frameless pack for starters. Adding a pad will enhance the stiffness, either rolled up inside or folded outside. As an example this shows a couple places to start thinking of to start lowering weight without sacrificing comfort. Try some system of clothing, maybe it will be great for you under the conditions you hike in. First Aide is more what you know than what you carry. Get a couple books and read them
yes, they WILL disagree. Study all the past posts here. A lot of what you are asking will be already discussed, but, not all by any means. Use your gear, use something different. What compromises are you willing to accept? Only you can decide what is the best system for your comfort.
My thoughts only . . .
jdm
James D. Marco
302 Mary Lane
Ithaca, NY 14850
607-273-9132 (land), 607-220-9969(cell)

From: ***@yahoogroups.com [mailto:***@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Gilmore
Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2012 1:49 AM
To: ***@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [BackpackingLight] Looking to move towards light backpacking but want to maintain some comfort




Well I finished my trip and have gotten to step II now. I went through everything I used and figured out a lot of stuff I could do without as well as a few places I could do dual duty. Here is what I came up with for phase II. Keep in mind there will be a Phase III, IV and V. Eventually I will upgrade my sleeping bag and possibly my backpack itself once I get the weight down low enough. Keep in mind i started out with my total pack weight last go around at 48 lbs. (yes I packed too much food & had a ton of redundancy).

Item:

Example:

Weight (oz)

Clothing Worn:

60.10

Shirt

Cotton button up with collar

5.00

Pants

Columbia Convertible Pants

10.80

Underwear

Hanes Boxer Briefs

2.90

Socks

SmartWool Mountaineer Socks

5.30

Belt

Cinch Woven Belt

3.50

Liner Socks

SmartWool Merino Wool Liner Socks

1.60

Sun Hat/Cap

Baseball Cap

4.00

Shoes

Keen Klamath Hiking Boots

27.00

Other Items Worn/Carried:



26.30

Watch

Citizen Eco-Drive

6.50

Sunglasses

Oakley FLAK Sun Glasses

2.00

Map

BlackOps map pouch

8.00

Compass

Brunton 8099 Eclipse

3.60

Fishing License & Wallet

License, DL, ATM & Cash

2.00

Camera

Sony W510

4.20

Knife and Survival

25.63

Knife

Esee 6

11.90

Sheath & Pouch

Esee 6 kydex sheath and pouch

5.70

Sharpener

Redi-Edge Tactical

0.80

Paracord



1.00

Whistle on lanyard



0.10

Fire Steel

Lite my Fire Army Fire steel

1.70

Mini Survival Kit

tin container

1.20

Flash light

Maglite Micro + AAA Battery

0.80

Fishing Kit



0.20

Button Compass



0.00

Signal Mirror



0.30

Water Purification

AquaMira Water Purification Tablets 2

0.03

Fire Starter



0.05

Fire Tinder



0.05

Moleskin



0.00

Emergency Razor Knife



0.20

Emergency Saw



0.10

Tin Foil



0.60

Water Bag



0.30

Safety Pin



0.00

Pain Killer

Aleve 8 ea

0.00

Snare Wire



0.03

Fishing line



0.03

magnifier



0.00

Duct Tape



0.00

sewing needle



0.00

paper

write in rain

0.03

pencil

Mini-pencil

0.03

Can Opener

P38

0.5

Extra Clothing:

52.60

Rain Gear

Only Pants (Assuming Down Jacket is Water Proof)

6.00

Crocs

Crocs clogs for water walking

9.00

Insulating Layer

Down Jacket

15.0

Polyproplene Layer

Polypropolene Long Johns

10.0

Gloves

Outdoor Research VersaLiner Gloves

2.90

Stocking Cap

Carhart Wool cap

2.80

Spare Socks

SmartWool Mountaineer Socks

5.30

Liner Socks

SmartWool Merino Wool Liner Socks

1.60

Packing:

54.80

Backpack

Gregory Z65

52.0

Stuff Sack(s)

REI X-Small diddy Stuff Sack

0.70

Camp Towel

MSR Camp Towel

0.90

Waterproofing

Trash Compactor bag

1.00

Essentials Bag

Ziplock Bag

0.20

Shelter & Sleeping:

117.05

Sleeping Bag

Marmot Sawtooth Membrain 15 degree

52.0

Compression Sack

Granite 11L Compression Sack

3.5

Sleeping Pad

Thermarest Prolite Plus Pad

24.0

Bivy

OR Alpine Bivy (If bugs or weather are issues)

30.50

Bivy Stakes

REI Aluminum Hook stakes (No Bivy no stakes)

1.75

Drop Cloth

Multiuse Contractor Grade Garbage Bag

4.30

Misquito Net

Head net for use when Bivy isnt used

1.00

Cooking & Hydration:

43.80

Water Storage

CamelBack 3L Hydration Bladder (100 OZ)

6.70

Water Carrier

Platypus 1 lt. bottle

0.90

Water Purification System

MSR AutoFlow system - 14.90 oz

0.00

Water Purification

Seychelle's Advanced water straw

1.50

Water Purification

AquaMira Water Purification Drops

3.00

Bear Canister

Bear Vault BV500 - 41 oz

0.00

Food Stuff Sack

REI Large Stuff Sack for food

6.00

Cooking Dishes

GSI Halulite Micro Dualist

18.00

Stove

MSR Pocket Rocket

3.00

Soap

Camp Soap in microbottle

2.70

Lighter

Bic Mini Lighter

0.50

Condiments

Salt and Pepper Shaker

1.50

Essentials:

21.85

Flashlight

Black Diamond head lamp

3.20

Toothbrush

Toothbrush

1.00

Tooth Paste

Crest micro tube

0.75

Toilet Paper

Wet wipes

6.00

Hand Sanitizer

Generic small high alchohol content

2.30

Floss

Mini Floss

0.20

First Aid

AMK .3

2.70

Sunscreen

Sunscreen - microbottle

1.30

Water Purification

Katdyn Water Purification Tablets 6 ea

0.00

Quick Clot



1.00

Duct Tape

AMK Survival Duct Tape Role

0.70

Hydropel

Foot treatment

1.00

Insect Protection

Natrapel

1.70

Fishing & Tech (only when fishing or Tech is an asset)

47.90

Fly rod

Cabelas LST 9' 4 piece rod

4.7

Reel

Kronic Fly Reel & Pouch

7.90

Tackle Lanyard

Mayfly Lanyard Pouch

20.50

Phone

iPhone

4.70

Keys



3.30

Charger and Cable

Scosche Charger and iPhone Cable

6.80

Consumables:

241.00

Food

Total Food (2 days)

128.00

Stove Fuel

Canister

13.00

Water

Water - 10 liter

100.00

Total Items Worn/Carried (lbs.)

7.00

Total Base Weight (lbs.)

18.13

Total Weight of Consumables (lbs.)

15.06

Total Carried Pack Weight (2)+(3)

33.19




Chris Gilmore
(408) 461-1380
________________________________
From: Jim Marco <***@cornell.edu>
To: "***@yahoogroups.com" <***@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, April 16, 2012 5:55 AM
Subject: RE: [BackpackingLight] Looking to move towards light backpacking but want to maintain some comfort


Hi Chris,
35 pounds is a respectable figure. If you plan on two weeks out. Food is often the largest part of most lightweight packers weight.
Pack weights are variable, though. This is the weight of the pack at the trail head, as you leave. Base weight is the weight of your pack and gear without food and water (some people count all consumables
so this is not quite as well defined as you might think.) FSO (From Skin Out) weight, is counting everything. I don’t generally use this, but this is more to keep what you are wearing and in your pockets as part of your camping kit.
Generally, I would suggest removing redundancy as others have said. Indeed, one of the primary goals of light weight packing is to eliminate everything that you do not use. Example, about half of the time, EVERY item I carry will be used over single 24 hour period. That also means there is almost NO redundancy. No backup. For those items that you absolutely must bring:
1) Ultra Reliable. An item cannot fail because it would make camping harder without it. Stoves, tents/tarps, etc must be rock solid.
2) You cannot lose stuff. When you are packed up in the morning, *check* again. Stakes, poles, odd items all need to be accounted for.
3) Small, yet fully functional within size constraints. Example: A tiny Leatherman Micra or Squirt (not both) should handle most chores well. I also carry a pocket knife. But, these are two different tools. One is larger and sharpened to a razor edge, it cuts. The squirt grasps, pry’s, and twists. Two different animals that between them cover everything I will need to do. I don’t mind if I have to beat the small edge to rounded worthless. Everything in my pack is adjusted with the Squirt, soo, it works on everything
lights, fishing reel & lures, etc. (Note that the screw driver was ground similar to the one in the Micra, ie, flat and angled to fit #0-#2 Philips heads.)

Your pack is perhaps one of the big determinants. Big packs breed space glut
and the desire to fill it with odd items you do not need. My first aid kit is a couple band aids. I use fuel as a sterilizer. I use duct tape on blisters and over larger cuts, 
 a bit of toilet paper makes a good pad, wrapped with duct tape to keep it on. It will wash out when I need to clean the wound. I am often out for a week to ten days using a 3000ci pack (Gossamer Gear Miniposa.) Keep your gear small and minimal. Learn how to make do with what you have. Generally, I get everything in a 9-11 pound base load. This is borderline light/ultra light. (10 pounds is considered Ultra Light, 20# is light.) I recently purchased a 2200ci Murmur. I am betting, I can get everything for 5-6 days in it. Again, food is my single biggest weight, often exceeding everything else by double or triple my base weight. Soo, starting with your pack, get a smaller pack. Often you will find sub 1pound packs rated to 25 or 30 pounds. Z-Packs, Gossamer Gear, Six Moons Designs, ULA are some good manufacturers. Light, to ultra light ranging from about 8.5oz to about 24oz. For 7 days, you do not need more. This is dollars outlaid. No help for it, unless you make your own. Note that GG includes a whistle (not real necessary) on their sternum straps. A good waist belt is nice when doing 20+mi per day. It places the majority of the load on or over your hips. There is no sense carrying weight any higher. Load transfer means keeping the pack straight, the load will *transfer* to your hips. Ideally, it should mould to your spine while hiking, but remain flexible enough to bend over and touch your toes without being painful.
OK, on to your list:
Knife- 11.8 oz (1 lbs 10.9 oz total) Too heavy. Buck or Gerber makes locking pocket knives for <2oz
Sheath & Pouch Not Needed.
Sharpener A 1/2 sheet of 2000 grit sandpaper, wrapped around a stick works fine.
Survival Kit & Cord Not Needed. Your pack gear IS your survival kit.
Whistle on lanyard Not Needed. See above.
Fire Steel Bic lighter (2 for the same weight.)
Compass- 3.6 oz Small ones are good, with a good map, you won’t be doing much more than checking “north”. ~.5oz
Mini First Aid Kit- 2.3 oz Not Needed. (Maybe, if you lead a group.)
Baseball Cap- 4 oz A wider brimmed “cowboy” style hat works well.
Sunglasses- 2 oz Not needed
depending on where you hike.
Belt- 3 oz Find a cheap lightweight nylon one, or integrated with your pants.
Hiking Boots- 27 oz Depending on terrain, you could go with a pair of trail runners, About 12-14oz per foot.

-Food Canister- 41 oz (10 lbs total) I won’t comment on food, except to say you need 1-2 pounds per person per day. It will vary.
Jerky - 12 oz
Snack Sack - 3 lbs
Starburst - done
Snack bars - done
Electrolytes -done
Gatorade -done
Crystal Lite -done
Apple Cider -done
Gum -done
Dried Fruit
Peanut Butter ?
Entrées
Breakfast
Oatmeal
Lunch - 4.3 oz ea
Dinner - 4.3 oz ea.

9:30 PM
-Main Compartment - 412.6 oz/25 lbs11.9 oz
Sleeping bag liner- 4.5 oz Not needed. Bring a set of long johns. You can wear them if things get bad, too.
OR Bivy Sack- 30.5 oz (1lbs 14.8 oz) A 9’x11’ tarp can be set up as an A-Frame, bivy sack or lean-to
it weighs about 13oz.
Sleeping bag- 52 oz Get a lighter one. I use a 1#11oz(27oz) down bag.
Compression Sack- 3.5 oz OK. Size can be as important as weight. NEVER compress a synthetic sleeping bag, though.
Exped Pillow- 3.6 oz Not Needed. Even your shoes wrapped in a sweater will work.
Thermarest Pad- 24 oz (1 lbs 9.2 oz) NightLite Pad from Gossamer Gear has about the same R value. It weighs ~10oz.

These items are different. I carry a SVEA 123 with cup, and a grease pot (K-Mart or Stanco,) a 12oz soda bottle(fuel cell) and aluminum foil wind screen/heat shield. With a Ti spoon, this comes to about 38oz. This is considered a bit heavy, but the stove is ultra reliable and fuel efficient for 7-10 days. For short 2 day trips out, I bring an alcohol stove. Saves about a pound or so, about the weight of the stove...
Stove- 3 oz
Gas Qty. 2 - 26 oz
Camp dishes- 18 oz (1 lbs 2.9oz)
Camp Utensils -


First Aid Kit - 1 lbs 4.9 oz Not needed.
MSR Water Filter - 14.9 oz AquaMira drops, plus bottles. Weighs about 1.5oz
Shovel- 28 oz (1 lbs 11.3 oz) Not Needed.
Gregory Z65 pack- 67 oz Much lighter packs out there. Assuming 16oz for light weight. 8oz for UL. 4oz for SUL.
Water Bladder (full)- 110 oz ?? See below

Lumbar Day pack?- 14 oz Not Needed. Your pack will be about as light.
Water Straw- 1.5 oz ?? See below

Camp Towel- .9 Not Needed. A bandana, cotton, weighs about the same.
Trash compacter bag - They are rugged, but a trash bag works better. TC bags or Turkey bags can split.

-Tech
iPhone - 4.7 oz I don’t carry any. They don’t work where I hike.
iPhone Charger -
iPhone Cable - .5 oz
Walkie Talkie(s) -7 oz NEVER! You and your partner or group should never be out of ear shot! Larger groups should be broken down, but proper planning will let you meet at the end of a day. If not, always assume there IS a problem and they are on the trail as planned.

-Clothes Stuff Sack - 5lbs Clothing can be difficult because it depends on conditions. Assuming extra cloths.
1 set of long johns 
 for sleeping in or when things go south. (12oz total)
3 pair of long wool socks (8oz total) 1 pair goes in with sleeping cloths and sleeping bag.
1 down jacket/sweater (12oz)
1 light wool sweater (14oz
1 rain jacket-5.5oz. Full PU coated nylon, not WP/B stuff.
(For >2 week trips only
)
1 long sleeved shirt 
 bug resistant weave.
1 pair of pants 
 Zip off, nylon, with belt around 10oz.
1 pair of jocky shorts
nylon or spandex blend. Support, like any other athletics.
1 pair of shorts or swim trunks. (Used in town to do laundry and for swimming.)
1 set of glove liners. (Use socks if it is really cold.) Glove liners are for paddling canoes.
This will protect you down to about 32F if you are stationary. You will NOT need these hiking. This comes up to about the same weight. For less than 2 weeks, I just bring extra socks, long johns, sweaters, and rain gear. Socks will double as mittens. This is about 3.5 pounds, but will also keep me as well as yours. I always wear a wide brimmed hat. Sheds rain really well, sheds sunlight, acts as a cozy, fans the fire and organizes my pocket gear at night.

Socks
Underwear
Shirt
Shorts/Pants
Jacket 2 lbs 9 oz & Pullover
Gloves & Stocking Cap

-Hygiene - Front Pouch - 1 lbs 7 oz
Wipes - 7 oz Not Needed. Or, dry them out first. I use about 2oz of TP per trip.
Toothbrush - 1 oz I use just the head from Toob brand, weighs about 1/3oz
Tooth paste - .75 oz Not Needed. Or as Rosaleen suggests, dry dots of it.
Map Pouch & Map - 8 oz You can use a baggie and the sections you are going to hike. Make copies and cut the hell out of them, 1/2oz.

-Supplies - Orange - 3lbs
Survival Kit Not Needed.
Soft Water Bottle(s) ??See note below

Head Light >>See note below

Flash Light >>See note below

Extra Dry Bag Not Needed.
Batteries 1 set 2016>>See note below.., 1 set 2032 for longer trips.
Straps Not Needed.
Stakes Qty. 5 Good, count out exactly what you need.
Fire Tinder Not Needed. Or, bring a piece of candle
works as well with a lighter.
Hand sanitizer (accelerant) Not Needed. You already have your own germs, ha ha. Some brands do not burn that well.
Tape 5-6’ of duct tape? Yes.
Multi-tool Usually a tiny Squirt, as discussed above.
550 Cord - 8 oz 50’ of 1.5mm line and a small, ti, Niteize s-biner. (Bear line I assume.) 1.75oz
Camp Soap ?? A tiny bottle of ivory dish soap will last about a month one drop at a time. Small amounts!

-On My Person 4 lb 6.7 oz (??duplicate?)
Knife- 11.8 oz (1 lbs 10.9 oz total)
Sheath & Pouch
Sharpener
Survival Kit & Cord
Whistle on lanyard
Fire Steel
Compass- 3.6 oz
Mini First Aid Kit- 2.3 oz
Baseball Cap- 4 oz
Sunglasses- 2 oz
Belt- 3 oz
Hiking Boots- 27 oz

-Food Canister- 41 oz (10 lbs total)
Jerky - 12 oz
Snack Sack - 3 lbs
Starburst - done
Snack bars - done
Electrolytes -done
Gatorade -done
Crystal Lite -done
Apple Cider -done
Gum -done
Dried Fruit
Peanut Butter ?
Entrées
Breakfast
Oatmeal

Note??: Water is a problem and is highly variable. I usually bring 2-20oz gatoraid bottles or the like. Anything with a wide mouth. They fill easily and will fit a steripen. For short trips into the High Peaks area in NY, it is better to have the stripen because water sources are about 5-6 hours apart. I will have drained both bottles and need water NOW. Generally I use AquaMira drops, though. The AM bottles will last for a month on the trail. And they are quite light. You can repackage them if needed for shorter 1 week trips. Generally not worth all the hassle, though. Filters are a hassle to set up and fill. Mostly, the springs and small creeks are plentiful, but, small. And they require larger containers, meaning I have to carry more between watering holes. I tried filters several times. They just don’t work all that well for me
lazy I guess. Backup is always boiling. Warm coffee, tea, and even Kool-Aid is fine, but not really great on a 80F day.
Note >>: Lighting is more of a personal choice. I do not like head lamps. People look at me and blind me. Generally, I use a small “Impulse” computerized light with timed off. This takes 2016 batteries. I mention this because rather than take a spare set of batteries, I take a second light. At a few grams more weight, I have a back up and it comes in handy for around camp. This is a $1 special (I picked up 20 of them) at a craft store. I stick it in a tiny plastic baggie. If needed, I can open it up and remove the batteries for the Impulse. It throws about 7-8 lumens of light, plenty for any darkness adapted eyes. Petzel’s E-light is my hiking light. It will last 16 hours or so. It only throws about 10-12lumens of light, but again, is fine for darkness adapted eyes. More, and I lose whatever adjustment my eyes have built up. A larger light bounces off the leaves or rock face a LOT. This reflection means you need a bigger light. With a bigger light, you get more reflection
needing a bigger light
 and more reflection
 If I am hiking after dark (doesn’t happen too often, maybe 5-10% of my nights out do I need it) I wait till I stumble, then clip it to my shoulder strap, NOT my head. The somewhat shorter angle will show roots and rocks in my path better. I do carry an extra set of batteries for this, not for week long trips, but for longer distance hikes. For >3 weeks, I just bring a second E-light. Both the Impulse and E-light are waterproof and have variable settings. I use the lowest setting I can, knowing that reflected light is what we see, but it is also what blinds. I really hate headlamps because of the high outputs, and, invariably, the person using them forgets and looks at me while we speak. Ouch

My thoughts only . . .
jdm
James D. Marco
302 Mary Lane
Ithaca, NY 14850
607-273-9132 (land), 607-220-9969(cell)
OK folks be kind, i'm slowly moving towards ultra light with a short stop (1 season) in light as I evaluate which gear I can do without and what gear needs to be replaced. Please provide feedback on what you think can be left behind or what should be swapped out first.

-On My Person 4 lb 6.7 oz
Knife- 11.8 oz (1 lbs 10.9 oz total)
Sheath & Pouch
Sharpener
Survival Kit & Cord
Whistle on lanyard
Fire Steel
Compass- 3.6 oz
Mini First Aid Kit- 2.3 oz
Baseball Cap- 4 oz
Sunglasses- 2 oz
Belt- 3 oz
Hiking Boots- 27 oz

-Food Canister- 41 oz (10 lbs total)
Jerky - 12 oz
Snack Sack - 3 lbs
Starburst - done
Snack bars - done
Electrolytes -done
Gatorade -done
Crystal Lite -done
Apple Cider -done
Gum -done
Dried Fruit
Peanut Butter ?
Entrées
Breakfast
Oatmeal
Lunch - 4.3 oz ea
Dinner - 4.3 oz ea.

9:30 PM
-Main Compartment - 412.6 oz/25 lbs11.9 oz
Sleeping bag liner- 4.5 oz
OR Bivy Sack- 30.5 oz (1lbs 14.8 oz)
Sleeping bag- 52 oz
Compression Sack- 3.5 oz
Exped Pillow- 3.6 oz
Thermarest Pad- 24 oz (1 lbs 9.2 oz)
Stove- 3 oz
Gas Qty. 2 - 26 oz
Camp dishes- 18 oz (1 lbs 2.9oz)
Camp Utensils -
First Aid Kit - 1 lbs 4.9 oz
MSR Water Filter - 14.9 oz
Shovel- 28 oz (1 lbs 11.3 oz)
Gregory Z65 pack- 67 oz
Water Bladder (full)- 110 oz
Lumbar Day pack?- 14 oz
Water Straw- 1.5 oz
Camp Towel- .9
Trash compacter bag -

-Tech
iPhone - 4.7 oz
iPhone Charger -
iPhone Cable - .5 oz
Walkie Talkie(s) -7 oz

-Clothes Stuff Sack - 5lbs
Socks
Underwear
Shirt
Shorts/Pants
Jacket 2 lbs 9 oz & Pullover
Gloves & Stocking Cap

-Hygiene - Front Pouch - 1 lbs 7 oz
Wipes - 7 oz
Toothbrush - 1 oz
Tooth paste - .75 oz
Map Pouch & Map - 8 oz

-Supplies - Orange - 3lbs
Survival Kit
Soft Water Bottle(s)
Head Light
Flash Light
Extra Dry Bag
Batteries
Straps
Stakes Qty. 5
Fire Tinder
Hand sanitizer (accelerant)
Tape
Multi-tool
550 Cord - 8 oz
Camp Soap
-On My Person 4 lb 6.7 oz
Knife- 11.8 oz (1 lbs 10.9 oz total)
Sheath & Pouch
Sharpener
Survival Kit & Cord
Whistle on lanyard
Fire Steel
Compass- 3.6 oz
Mini First Aid Kit- 2.3 oz
Baseball Cap- 4 oz
Sunglasses- 2 oz
Belt- 3 oz
Hiking Boots- 27 oz

-Food Canister- 41 oz (10 lbs total)
Jerky - 12 oz
Snack Sack - 3 lbs
Starburst - done
Snack bars - done
Electrolytes -done
Gatorade -done
Crystal Lite -done
Apple Cider -done
Gum -done
Dried Fruit
Peanut Butter ?
Entrées
Breakfast
Oatmeal
Chris Gilmore
(408) 461-1380
Chris Gilmore
2012-04-30 19:03:18 UTC
Permalink
John,
   All good info, as for the pack and sleeping bag I have been looking at some of the golite gear it seems more reasonably priced and very light. I guess my only question is quality and durability? 

I some times pitch my sleeping bag and not my bivy if the bugs and weather cooperate (my current bag is water proof so no dew or even light rain concerns). With that said can you give me some brands to research for the bug net and tarp tent? I would prefer to take something like this that is much lighter during the good weather months where insects are still an issue. 

As for the first aid I have been through USAF survival training, I have my first-aid certs and have undergone battle field medicine basics so I have good skills but have always stuck with the old boy scout motto (which inherently is interpreted in taking way too much gear). I am now ready to move away from that and rely more on my skills and teach my son the same, as I think at 6 it will be much more enjoyable for him to backpack light. I always found it burdensome and a means to an end rather than actually enjoying the hike itself.

I don't plan to trade in my sleeping pad however any time soon that is one creature comfort I really need with my bad back and hips. Although one of my UL focused friends has mentioned as my pack lightens my back discomfort may lessen as well making the sleeping pad less of an issue.
 
Chris Gilmore
(408) 461-1380


________________________________
From: Jim Marco <jdm27-***@public.gmane.org>
To: "BackpackingLight-***@public.gmane.org" <BackpackingLight-***@public.gmane.org>
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2012 10:23 AM
Subject: RE: [BackpackingLight] Looking to move towards light backpacking but want to maintain some comfort


 
Hi Chris,
                About 30lb pack load is where I was at when I joined this list.  About 10lbs was lost buying lighter gear. Flashlight, fishing rod & reel, other stuff too. Another 10lbs was lost in redundant or “just in case” gear.  Sleeping bags are a big dollar item. A good 32F/0C bag will cost ~350-400 dollars. Packs will run about 150-$200 for ~16oz. Tents will run about $250 in the 24-32oz range for two people.
                You gear is still way too heavy. Food is generally accepted to be fine if you have 2lb per day per person. This depends on a lot of stuff, but at 2lb PDPP will cover everything. For myself, I often carry 2-3lb for a weekend, or, about 1-1.5lb per day. For the first few days (about three) I am never that interested in eating
just fuel for the trail. After that I like good cooked meals, but one per day does fine. Breakfast is usually oatmeal, cream of wheat or the like. Lots of calories. I plan on 5 minutes every hour as a rest break, usually a drink and part of a trail bar between 0800-0900 to about 1600 or so.  Hiking up hills and down valleys I start looking for a camp spot about then. By 1600 I will usually have found one. And can start setting up camp. Nothing is urgent. I often pass by many that look well used, preferring a more sheltered spot, sometimes with a lean-to, sometimes not. Not real fussy about that. 
Firewood, a small rise with lots of trees, usually means little wind and more privacy.
 
Your pack, tent and sleeping bag are needed. Soo lets start there as an example.
 
Backpack Gregory Z65 52.0
Sleeping Bag Marmot Sawtooth Membrain 15 degree  52.0
Compression Sack Granite 11L Compression Sack 3.5
Sleeping Pad ThermarestProlite Plus Pad  24.0
Bivy OR Alpine Bivy (If bugs or weather are issues) 30.50
Bivy Stakes REI Aluminum Hook stakes (No Bivy no stakes) 1.75
Drop Cloth Multiuse Contractor Grade Garbage Bag 4.30
Misquito Net Head net for use when Bivyisnt used 1.00
Total:                                                                                                                                                                        169.05
This is a lot for just hauling and sleeping.  I like my comfort, but
 This is roughly equivalent from my gear.
Marco:
Backpack:                            8.5
Sleeping Bag                      29oz
Down sweater                  12oz
Dry bag                                 5.1oz
Sleeping pad                      10.5oz
Tarp                                       16oz
Stakes                                   1.2oz
Bug tent                               16oz
Stakes                                   1.2oz
Total:                                     99.5
The backpack is light and small with no frame. The pad is cut and folds into the pad pockets as a frame, not taking extra space inside. But, you have to bring a pack. I bring the lightest single purpose pack that will handle the load I anticipate (about 20 pounds.) The pad does double duty as a sleeping pad and a pack frame. The sleeping bag is a single purpose item. Quilts don’t work for me, so, I the bag is a bit heavier than need be. It is lighter than would be needed without the down sweater, though. The down sweater extends the range of the sleeping bag about 8-10 degrees. Soo, it does double duty as sleeping wear and as camp wear. Both are packed in the same compression bag in the morning...costs a bit of weight, but saves volume. The bag and down sweater are both 750-800 fill down. They pack loosely into the small bag in the bottom of the pack. The tarp is rolled tightly and inserted into the pack front pouch. Again, stiffening the pack. Same
for the bug tent, but this only goes in bug season. I do not bother with a ground cloth. I choose my campsite fairly carefully, though. Wet ground means an early stop. Sheltering under the larger tarp I carry means the ground can drain and dry a bit.  I usually carry a 9’x11’, but have made several smaller and larger ones. In summer often I will bring the 9’x7’, but in spring I bring the larger one and can fold one side under me if the ground is soaked. So again, the tarp pretty much is doubling as a ground cloth, too. For stakes, I use shepherds hooks ti stakes. They vary between .18oz and .22oz. No double duty for these.  The bug tent I use when out paddling. Near the water, I often get lots of the nasty critters. It has a ground cloth, too.
 
Anyway, one of the important things that you learn about camping and backpacking is that most really successful people use systems. They do not typically carry heavy loads, nor, UL loads. Load is far less important than making selections that work together.   Working a system of packing, will generally result in a lighter overall load. A system of packing, generally means a frameless pack for starters. Adding a pad will enhance the stiffness, either rolled up inside or folded outside.  As an example this shows a couple places to start thinking of to start lowering weight without sacrificing comfort.  Try some system of clothing, maybe it will be great for you under the conditions you hike in.  First Aide is more what you know than what you carry. Get a couple books and read them
yes, they WILL disagree.  Study all the past posts here. A lot of what you are asking will be already discussed, but, not all by any means. Use your gear, use something
different. What compromises are you willing to accept? Only you can decide what is the best system for your comfort.
                My thoughts only . . .
                                jdm
James D. Marco
302 Mary Lane
Ithaca, NY  14850
607-273-9132 (land), 607-220-9969(cell)
 
From:BackpackingLight-***@public.gmane.org [mailto:***@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Gilmore
Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2012 1:49 AM
To: BackpackingLight-***@public.gmane.org
Subject: Re: [BackpackingLight] Looking to move towards light backpacking but want to maintain some comfort
 



Well I finished my trip and have gotten to step II now. I went through everything I used and figured out a lot of stuff I could do without as well as a few places I could do dual duty. Here is what I came up with for phase II. Keep in mind there will be a Phase III, IV and V. Eventually I will upgrade my sleeping bag and possibly my backpack itself once I get the weight down low enough. Keep in mind i started out with my total pack weight last go around at 48 lbs. (yes I packed too much food & had a ton of redundancy).
 
Item: Example: Weight (oz)
Clothing Worn: 60.10
Shirt Cotton button up with collar 5.00
Pants Columbia Convertible Pants 10.80
Underwear Hanes Boxer Briefs 2.90
Socks SmartWool Mountaineer Socks 5.30
Belt Cinch Woven Belt 3.50
Liner Socks SmartWool Merino Wool Liner Socks 1.60
Sun Hat/Cap Baseball Cap 4.00
Shoes Keen Klamath Hiking Boots 27.00
Other Items Worn/Carried:   26.30
Watch Citizen Eco-Drive 6.50
Sunglasses Oakley FLAK Sun Glasses 2.00
Map BlackOps map pouch 8.00
Compass Brunton 8099 Eclipse 3.60
Fishing License & Wallet License, DL, ATM & Cash 2.00
Camera Sony W510 4.20
Knife and Survival 25.63
Knife Esee 6 11.90
Sheath & Pouch Esee 6 kydex sheath and pouch 5.70
Sharpener Redi-Edge Tactical 0.80
Paracord   1.00
Whistle on lanyard   0.10
Fire Steel Lite my Fire Army Fire steel 1.70
Mini Survival Kit tin container 1.20
Flash light Maglite Micro + AAA Battery 0.80
Fishing Kit   0.20
Button Compass   0.00
Signal Mirror   0.30
Water Purification AquaMira Water Purification Tablets 2 0.03
Fire Starter   0.05
Fire Tinder   0.05
Moleskin   0.00
Emergency Razor Knife   0.20
Emergency Saw   0.10
Tin Foil   0.60
Water Bag   0.30
Safety Pin   0.00
Pain Killer Aleve 8 ea 0.00
Snare Wire   0.03
Fishing line   0.03
magnifier   0.00
Duct Tape   0.00
sewing needle   0.00
paper write in rain 0.03
pencil Mini-pencil 0.03
Can Opener P38 0.5
Extra Clothing: 52.60
Rain Gear Only Pants (Assuming Down Jacket is Water Proof) 6.00
Crocs Crocs clogs for water walking 9.00
Insulating Layer Down Jacket 15.0
Polyproplene Layer Polypropolene Long Johns 10.0
Gloves Outdoor Research VersaLiner Gloves 2.90
Stocking Cap Carhart Wool cap 2.80
Spare Socks SmartWool Mountaineer Socks 5.30
Liner Socks SmartWool Merino Wool Liner Socks 1.60
Packing: 54.80
Backpack Gregory Z65 52.0
Stuff Sack(s) REI X-Small diddy Stuff Sack 0.70
Camp Towel MSR Camp Towel 0.90
Waterproofing Trash Compactor bag 1.00
Essentials Bag Ziplock Bag 0.20
Shelter & Sleeping: 117.05
Sleeping Bag Marmot Sawtooth Membrain 15 degree  52.0
Compression Sack Granite 11L Compression Sack 3.5
Sleeping Pad ThermarestProlite Plus Pad  24.0
Bivy OR Alpine Bivy (If bugs or weather are issues) 30.50
Bivy Stakes REI Aluminum Hook stakes (No Bivy no stakes) 1.75
Drop Cloth Multiuse Contractor Grade Garbage Bag 4.30
Misquito Net Head net for use when Bivyisnt used 1.00
Cooking & Hydration: 43.80
Water Storage CamelBack 3L Hydration Bladder (100 OZ) 6.70
Water Carrier Platypus 1 lt. bottle 0.90
Water Purification System MSRAutoFlow system - 14.90 oz 0.00
Water Purification Seychelle's Advanced water straw 1.50
Water Purification AquaMira Water Purification Drops 3.00
Bear Canister Bear Vault BV500 - 41 oz 0.00
Food Stuff Sack REI Large Stuff Sack for food 6.00
Cooking Dishes GSIHalulite Micro Dualist 18.00
Stove MSR Pocket Rocket 3.00
Soap Camp Soap in microbottle 2.70
Lighter Bic Mini Lighter 0.50
Condiments Salt and Pepper Shaker 1.50
Essentials: 21.85
Flashlight Black Diamond head lamp 3.20
Toothbrush Toothbrush 1.00
Tooth Paste Crest micro tube 0.75
Toilet Paper Wet wipes 6.00
Hand Sanitizer Generic small high alchohol content 2.30
Floss Mini Floss  0.20
First Aid AMK .3 2.70
Sunscreen Sunscreen - microbottle 1.30
Water Purification Katdyn Water Purification Tablets 6 ea 0.00
Quick Clot   1.00
Duct Tape AMK Survival Duct Tape Role 0.70
Hydropel Foot treatment 1.00
Insect Protection Natrapel 1.70
Fishing & Tech (only when fishing or Tech is an asset) 47.90
Fly rod CabelasLST 9' 4 piece rod 4.7
Reel Kronic Fly Reel & Pouch 7.90
Tackle Lanyard Mayfly Lanyard Pouch 20.50
Phone iPhone 4.70
Keys   3.30
Charger and Cable Scosche Charger and iPhone Cable 6.80
Consumables: 241.00
Food Total Food (2 days) 128.00
Stove Fuel Canister 13.00
Water Water - 10 liter 100.00
Total Items Worn/Carried (lbs.) 7.00
Total Base Weight (lbs.) 18.13
Total Weight of Consumables (lbs.) 15.06
Total Carried Pack Weight (2)+(3) 33.19
 
 
 
Chris Gilmore
(408) 461-1380

________________________________

From:Jim Marco <jdm27-***@public.gmane.org>
To: "BackpackingLight-***@public.gmane.org" <BackpackingLight-***@public.gmane.org>
Sent: Monday, April 16, 2012 5:55 AM
Subject: RE: [BackpackingLight] Looking to move towards light backpacking but want to maintain some comfort
 
 
Hi Chris,
                35 pounds is a respectable figure. If you plan on two weeks out. Food is often the largest part of most lightweight packers weight.
Pack weights are variable, though. This is the weight of the pack at the trail head, as you leave. Base weight is the weight of your pack and gear without food and water (some people count all consumables
so this is not quite as well defined as you might think.) FSO (From Skin Out) weight, is counting everything. I don’t generally use this, but this is more to keep what you are wearing and in your pockets as part of your camping kit.
                Generally, I would suggest removing redundancy as others have said. Indeed, one of the primary goals of light weight packing is to eliminate everything that you do not use.  Example, about half of the time, EVERY item I carry will be used over single 24 hour period. That also means there is almost NO redundancy. No backup. For those items that you absolutely must bring:
1)      Ultra Reliable. An item cannot fail because it would make camping harder without it. Stoves, tents/tarps, etc must be rock solid.
2)      You cannot lose stuff. When you are packed up in the morning, *check* again. Stakes, poles, odd items all need to be accounted for.
3)      Small, yet fully functional within size constraints.  Example: A tiny Leatherman Micra or Squirt (not both) should handle most chores well. I also carry a pocket knife. But, these are two different tools. One is larger and sharpened to a razor edge, it cuts. The squirt grasps, pry’s, and twists. Two different animals that between them cover everything I will need to do. I don’t mind if I have to beat the small edge to rounded worthless.  Everything in my pack is adjusted with the Squirt, soo, it works on everything
lights, fishing reel & lures, etc. (Note that the screw driver was ground similar to the one in the Micra, ie, flat and angled to fit #0-#2  Philips heads.)
 
Your pack is perhaps one of the big determinants. Big packs breed space glut
and the desire to fill it with odd items you do not need. My first aid kit is a couple band aids. I use fuel as a sterilizer. I use duct tape on blisters and over larger cuts, 
 a bit of toilet paper makes a good pad, wrapped with duct tape to keep it on.  It will wash out when I need to clean the wound. I am often out for a week to ten days using a 3000ci pack (Gossamer Gear Miniposa.) Keep your gear small and minimal. Learn how to make do with what you have. Generally, I get everything in a 9-11 pound base load. This is borderline light/ultra light. (10 pounds is considered Ultra Light, 20# is light.) I recently purchased a 2200ci Murmur.  I am betting, I can get everything for 5-6 days in it. Again, food is my single biggest weight, often exceeding everything else by double or triple my base weight. Soo, starting with your pack, get a smaller pack. Often you will find
sub 1pound packs rated to 25 or 30 pounds. Z-Packs, Gossamer Gear, Six Moons Designs, ULA are some good manufacturers. Light, to ultra light ranging from about 8.5oz to about 24oz. For 7 days, you do not need more. This is dollars outlaid. No help for it, unless you make your own. Note that GG includes a whistle (not real necessary) on their sternum straps. A good waist belt is nice when doing 20+mi per day. It places the majority of the load on or over your hips. There is no sense carrying weight any higher. Load transfer means keeping the pack straight, the load will *transfer* to your hips. Ideally, it should mould to your spine while hiking, but remain flexible enough to bend over and touch your toes without being painful.
OK, on to your list:  
Knife- 11.8 oz (1 lbs 10.9 oz total)              Too heavy. Buck or Gerber makes locking pocket knives for <2oz
Sheath & Pouch                                                Not Needed.
Sharpener                                                           A 1/2 sheet of 2000 grit sandpaper, wrapped around a stick works fine.
Survival Kit & Cord                                           Not Needed. Your pack gear IS your survival kit.
Whistle on lanyard                                          Not Needed. See above.
Fire Steel                                                             Bic lighter (2 for the same weight.)
Compass- 3.6 oz                                               Small ones are good, with a good map, you won’t be doing much more than checking “north”. ~.5oz
Mini First Aid Kit- 2.3 oz                                 Not Needed. (Maybe, if you lead a group.)
Baseball Cap- 4 oz                                            A wider brimmed “cowboy” style hat works well.
Sunglasses- 2 oz                                               Not needed
depending on where you hike.
Belt-  3 oz                                                            Find a cheap lightweight nylon one, or integrated with your pants.
Hiking Boots-  27 oz                                         Depending on terrain, you could go with a pair of trail runners, About 12-14oz per foot.
 
-Food Canister- 41 oz (10 lbs total)           I won’t comment on food, except to say you need 1-2 pounds per person per day. It will vary.
Jerky - 12 oz
Snack Sack - 3 lbs
Starburst - done
Snack bars - done
Electrolytes -done
Gatorade -done
Crystal Lite -done
Apple Cider -done
Gum -done
Dried Fruit
Peanut Butter ?
Entrées
Breakfast
Oatmeal
Lunch - 4.3 oz ea
Dinner - 4.3 oz ea.
 
9:30 PM
-Main Compartment - 412.6 oz/25 lbs11.9 oz
Sleeping bag liner- 4.5 oz                              Not needed. Bring a set of long johns. You can wear them if things get bad, too.
OR Bivy Sack- 30.5 oz  (1lbs 14.8 oz)          A 9’x11’ tarp can be set up as an A-Frame, bivy sack or lean-to
it weighs about 13oz.    
Sleeping bag- 52 oz                                         Get a lighter one. I use a 1#11oz(27oz) down bag.
Compression Sack- 3.5 oz                             OK. Size can be as important as weight. NEVER compress a synthetic sleeping bag, though.
Exped Pillow- 3.6 oz                                        Not Needed. Even your shoes wrapped in a sweater will work.
Thermarest Pad- 24 oz (1 lbs 9.2 oz)         NightLite Pad from Gossamer Gear has about the same R value. It weighs ~10oz.
 
                                These items are different. I carry a SVEA 123 with cup, and a grease pot (K-Mart or Stanco,) a 12oz soda bottle(fuel cell) and aluminum foil wind screen/heat shield. With a Ti spoon, this comes to about 38oz. This is considered a bit heavy, but the stove is ultra reliable and fuel efficient for 7-10 days. For short 2 day trips out, I bring an alcohol stove. Saves about a pound or so, about the weight of the stove...       
Stove- 3 oz
Gas Qty. 2 - 26 oz
Camp dishes- 18 oz (1 lbs 2.9oz)
Camp Utensils -
 
 
First Aid Kit - 1 lbs 4.9 oz                                Not needed.
MSR Water Filter - 14.9 oz                            AquaMira drops, plus bottles. Weighs about 1.5oz
Shovel- 28 oz (1 lbs 11.3 oz)                         Not Needed.
Gregory Z65 pack- 67 oz                                Much lighter packs out there. Assuming 16oz for light weight. 8oz for UL. 4oz for SUL.
Water Bladder (full)- 110 oz                         ?? See below

Lumbar Day pack?- 14 oz                              Not Needed. Your pack will be about as light.
Water Straw- 1.5 oz                                        ?? See below

Camp Towel- .9                                                 Not Needed. A bandana, cotton, weighs about the same.
 Trash compacter bag -                                  They are rugged, but a trash bag works better. TC bags or Turkey bags can split.
 
-Tech
iPhone - 4.7 oz                                                  I don’t carry any. They don’t work where I hike.
iPhone Charger -
iPhone Cable - .5 oz
Walkie Talkie(s) -7 oz                                      NEVER! You and your partner or group should never be out of ear shot! Larger groups should be broken down, but proper planning will let you meet at the end of a day. If not, always assume there IS a problem and they are on the trail as planned.
 
-Clothes Stuff Sack - 5lbs                              Clothing can be difficult because it depends on conditions. Assuming extra cloths.
                                                                                1 set of long johns 
 for sleeping in or when things go south. (12oz total)
                                                                                3 pair of long wool socks (8oz total) 1 pair goes in with sleeping cloths and sleeping bag.
                                                                                1 down jacket/sweater (12oz)
                                                                                1 light wool sweater  (14oz
                                                                                1 rain jacket-5.5oz. Full PU coated nylon, not WP/B stuff.
                                                                                (For >2 week trips only
)
                                                                                1 long sleeved shirt 
 bug resistant weave.
                                                                                1 pair of pants 
  Zip off, nylon, with belt around 10oz.
                                                                                1 pair of jocky shorts
nylon or spandex blend. Support, like any other athletics.
                                                                                1 pair of shorts or swim trunks. (Used in town to do laundry and for swimming.)
                                                                                1 set of glove liners. (Use socks if it is really cold.) Glove liners are for paddling canoes.
                This will protect you down to about 32F if you are stationary. You will NOT need these hiking. This comes up to about the same weight. For less than 2 weeks, I just bring extra socks, long johns, sweaters, and rain gear. Socks will double as mittens.  This is about 3.5 pounds, but will also keep me as well as yours. I always wear a wide brimmed hat. Sheds rain really well, sheds sunlight, acts as a cozy, fans the fire and organizes my pocket gear at night.
 
Socks
Underwear
Shirt
Shorts/Pants
Jacket  2 lbs 9 oz & Pullover
Gloves & Stocking Cap
 
-Hygiene  -Front Pouch - 1 lbs 7 oz
Wipes - 7 oz                                                        Not Needed. Or, dry them out first. I use about 2oz of TP per trip.
Toothbrush  - 1 oz                                            I use just the head from Toob brand, weighs about 1/3oz
Tooth paste  - .75 oz                                       Not Needed. Or as Rosaleen suggests, dry dots of it.
Map Pouch & Map - 8 oz                               You can use a baggie and the sections you are going to hike. Make copies and cut the hell out of them, 1/2oz.
 
-Supplies  - Orange - 3lbs
Survival Kit                                                          Not Needed.
Soft Water Bottle(s)                                       ??See note below

Head Light                                                           >>See note below

Flash Light                                                           >>See note below

Extra Dry Bag                                                     Not Needed.
Batteries                                                              1 set 2016>>See note below.., 1 set 2032 for longer trips.
Straps                                                                   Not Needed.
Stakes Qty. 5                                                      Good, count out exactly what you need.
Fire Tinder                                                          Not Needed. Or, bring a piece of candle
works as well with a lighter.
Hand sanitizer (accelerant)                          Not Needed. You already have your own germs, ha ha. Some brands do not burn that well.
Tape                                                                      5-6’ of duct tape? Yes.
Multi-tool                                                            Usually a tiny Squirt, as discussed above.
550 Cord  - 8 oz                                                  50’ of 1.5mm line and a small, ti, Niteize s-biner. (Bear line I assume.) 1.75oz
Camp Soap                                                         ?? A tiny bottle of ivory dish soap will last about a month one drop at a time. Small amounts!
 
-On My Person  4 lb 6.7 oz  (??duplicate?)
Knife- 11.8 oz (1 lbs 10.9 oz total)
Sheath & Pouch
Sharpener
Survival Kit & Cord
Whistle on lanyard
Fire Steel
Compass- 3.6 oz
Mini First Aid Kit- 2.3 oz
Baseball Cap- 4 oz
Sunglasses- 2 oz
Belt-  3 oz
Hiking Boots-  27 oz
 
-Food Canister- 41 oz (10 lbs total)
Jerky - 12 oz
Snack Sack - 3 lbs
Starburst - done
Snack bars - done
Electrolytes -done
Gatorade -done
Crystal Lite -done
Apple Cider -done
Gum -done
Dried Fruit
Peanut Butter ?
Entrées
Breakfast
Oatmeal 
 
Note??: Water is a problem and is highly variable. I usually bring 2-20oz gatoraid bottles or the like. Anything with a wide mouth. They fill easily and will fit a steripen. For short trips into the High Peaks area in NY, it is better to have the stripen because water sources are about 5-6 hours apart. I will have drained both bottles and need water NOW. Generally I use AquaMira drops, though. The AM bottles will last for a month on the trail. And they are quite light. You can repackage them if needed for shorter 1 week trips. Generally not worth all the hassle, though. Filters are a hassle to set up and fill. Mostly, the springs and small creeks are plentiful, but, small. And they require larger containers, meaning I have to carry more between watering holes. I tried filters several times. They just don’t work all that well for me
lazy I guess. Backup is always boiling. Warm coffee, tea, and even Kool-Aid is fine, but not really great on a 80F day.
Note >>:   Lighting is more of a personal choice. I do not like head lamps. People look at me and blind me. Generally, I use a small “Impulse” computerized light with timed off. This takes 2016 batteries. I mention this because rather than take a spare set of batteries, I take a second light. At a few grams more weight, I have a back up and it comes in handy for around camp. This is a $1 special (I picked up 20 of them) at a craft store. I stick it in a tiny plastic baggie. If needed, I can open it up and remove the batteries for the Impulse. It throws about 7-8 lumens of light, plenty for any darkness adapted eyes. Petzel’s E-light is my hiking light. It will last 16 hours or so. It only throws about 10-12lumens of light, but again, is fine for darkness adapted eyes. More, and I lose whatever adjustment my eyes have built up. A larger light bounces off the leaves or rock face a LOT. This reflection means you need a bigger light. With a bigger
light, you get more reflection
needing a bigger light
 and more reflection
  If I am hiking after dark (doesn’t happen too often, maybe 5-10% of my nights out do I need it) I wait till I stumble, then clip it to my shoulder strap, NOT my head. The somewhat shorter angle will show roots and rocks in my path better.  I do carry an extra set of batteries for this, not for week long trips, but for longer distance hikes. For >3 weeks, I just bring a second E-light. Both the Impulse and E-light are waterproof and have variable settings.  I use the lowest setting I can, knowing that reflected light is what we see, but it is also what blinds. I really hate headlamps because of the high outputs, and, invariably, the person using them forgets and looks at me while we speak. Ouch

My thoughts only . . .
                                jdm
James D. Marco
302 Mary Lane
Ithaca, NY  14850
607-273-9132 (land), 607-220-9969(cell)
OK folks be kind, i'm slowly moving towards  ultra light with a short stop (1 season) in light as I evaluate which gear I can do without and what gear needs to be replaced. Please provide feedback on what you think can be left behind or what should be swapped out first. 
 
-On My Person  4 lb 6.7 oz
Knife- 11.8 oz (1 lbs 10.9 oz total)
Sheath & Pouch
Sharpener
Survival Kit & Cord
Whistle on lanyard
Fire Steel
Compass- 3.6 oz
Mini First Aid Kit- 2.3 oz
Baseball Cap- 4 oz
Sunglasses- 2 oz
Belt-  3 oz
Hiking Boots-  27 oz
 
-Food Canister- 41 oz (10 lbs total)
Jerky - 12 oz
Snack Sack - 3 lbs
Starburst - done
Snack bars - done
Electrolytes -done
Gatorade -done
Crystal Lite -done
Apple Cider -done
Gum -done
Dried Fruit
Peanut Butter ?
Entrées
Breakfast
Oatmeal
Lunch - 4.3 oz ea
Dinner - 4.3 oz ea.
 
9:30 PM
-Main Compartment - 412.6 oz/25 lbs11.9 oz
Sleeping bag liner- 4.5 oz
OR Bivy Sack- 30.5 oz  (1lbs 14.8 oz)
Sleeping bag- 52 oz
Compression Sack- 3.5 oz
Exped Pillow- 3.6 oz
Thermarest Pad- 24 oz (1 lbs 9.2 oz)
Stove- 3 oz
Gas Qty. 2 - 26 oz
Camp dishes- 18 oz (1 lbs 2.9oz)
Camp Utensils -
First Aid Kit - 1 lbs 4.9 oz
MSR Water Filter - 14.9 oz
Shovel- 28 oz (1 lbs 11.3 oz)
Gregory Z65 pack- 67 oz
Water Bladder (full)- 110 oz
Lumbar Day pack?- 14 oz
Water Straw- 1.5 oz
Camp Towel- .9
 Trash compacter bag -
 
-Tech
iPhone - 4.7 oz
iPhone Charger -
iPhone Cable - .5 oz
Walkie Talkie(s) -7 oz
 
-Clothes Stuff Sack - 5lbs
Socks
Underwear
Shirt
Shorts/Pants
Jacket  2 lbs 9 oz & Pullover
Gloves & Stocking Cap
 
-Hygiene  -Front Pouch - 1 lbs 7 oz
Wipes - 7 oz
Toothbrush  - 1 oz
Tooth paste  - .75 oz
Map Pouch & Map - 8 oz
 
-Supplies  - Orange - 3lbs
Survival Kit
Soft Water Bottle(s)
Head Light
Flash Light
Extra Dry Bag
Batteries
Straps
Stakes Qty. 5
Fire Tinder
Hand sanitizer (accelerant)
Tape
Multi-tool
550 Cord  - 8 oz
Camp Soap 
-On My Person  4 lb 6.7 oz
Knife- 11.8 oz (1 lbs 10.9 oz total)
Sheath & Pouch
Sharpener
Survival Kit & Cord
Whistle on lanyard
Fire Steel
Compass- 3.6 oz
Mini First Aid Kit- 2.3 oz
Baseball Cap- 4 oz
Sunglasses- 2 oz
Belt-  3 oz
Hiking Boots-  27 oz
 
-Food Canister- 41 oz (10 lbs total)
Jerky - 12 oz
Snack Sack - 3 lbs
Starburst - done
Snack bars - done
Electrolytes -done
Gatorade -done
Crystal Lite -done
Apple Cider -done
Gum -done
Dried Fruit
Peanut Butter ?
Entrées
Breakfast
Oatmeal 
Chris Gilmore
(408) 461-1380
 
Don
2012-04-29 18:24:12 UTC
Permalink
Mr. Marco,

I'm interested in your decision to use a Svea on longer trips. I, too, appreciate the reliability of the Svea, but have moved to a gas stove (Brunton Crux). In my experience, butane stoves are equally reliable and considerably lighter than a Svea, at least for trips of several days or less. Data I've seen on the Web, including at Zenstoves.com, support my weight-based observations. Could you elaborate on your decision to use a relatively heavy white gas stove instead of the increasingly popular butane options? (I have to admit that it pleasures me a little to know that somewhere, someone is still using a good olde Svea.)

Regards,
Don Bushek

_____________________________
Post by Chris Gilmore
Sent: Monday, April 16, 2012 5:55 AM
Subject: RE: [BackpackingLight] Looking to move towards light backpacking but want to maintain some comfort
I carry a SVEA 123 with cup, and a grease pot (K-Mart or Stanco,) a 12oz soda bottle(fuel cell) and aluminum foil wind screen/heat shield. With a Ti spoon, this comes to about 38oz. This is considered a bit heavy, but the stove is ultra reliable and fuel efficient for 7-10 days. For short 2 day trips out, I bring an alcohol stove. Saves about a pound or so, about the weight of the stove...       
Stove- 3 oz
Gas Qty. 2 - 26 oz
Camp dishes- 18 oz (1 lbs 2.9oz)
My thoughts only . . .
                                jdm
James D. Marco
302 Mary Lane
Ithaca, NY  14850
607-273-9132 (land), 607-220-9969(cell)
Eric Green
2012-04-30 21:49:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Don
Mr. Marco,
I'm interested in your decision to use a Svea on longer trips.
The SVEA is extremely fuel efficient, and the fuel bottles are much lighter than isobutane fuel bottles. A 16 oz PET water bottle will hold white gas just fine and weighs approximately 0.5 ounces, while an 8oz isobutane canister has an empty weight of around 4 oz. So past a certain point the weight of isobutane canisters outweighs the weight of the stove.
Jim Marco
2012-05-01 01:42:24 UTC
Permalink
Hi Don,
Anyway, I picked up the older stove when both models were in the store. One was more dollars than the other. It didn't really matter to me because I had tied up a couple dozen Bass Bugs (I think they were articulated frogs with a fairly large mouth) and needed to trade. So, I don't remember the exact dollars. I went home with the stove, a 12oz fuel bottle and some dollars. So, I got the better stove. (Self cleaning...a fairly big deal at the time.)
I believe this was in 1972-73. Later, I bought a pump and cap. The only real difference in operation is the jet cleaner, a built in needle cleans it when it gets dirty. Twist both directions every use, it never fouls.
It doesn't require the pump. The pump does limit the priming fuel, though. It also limits its otherwise propensity to fireballs, especially when warm. And it runs better in cold weather.
It gets good fuel consumption. About the same as Butane/Propane given the difference in fuels and a slight bit for priming.
It does really good with wind screens, but you have to keep the gas turned down. Unlike other upright stoves that can overheat, it sort'of likes good high operating temps. Always use on low, of course.
It has a cup to protect the burner and pot stand. Often, I use this in the morning to make coffee before starting the rest of the water. Otherwise, it is just a cup.
On low it gets about 12-13 liters (maybe a bit more, I got to 13 and turned it off. When opened it was dry.) This is about .23oz per liter. It will do better in a controlled environment, but it is difficult to say repeatable outdoors. Butane/Propane gets about .17-.20 oz per liter. Mostly, this is the difference in fuels.
Using a fuel cell (a heat expanded soda bottle) the fuel bottle only takes one ounce per 12 floz of fuel. 12floz of WG weighs about 9oz. A 16oz fuel cell weighs about 12oz with some air space.
Roughly, with cooking at night, boiling a quart in the morning and making a cocoa at night, I use about 1oz of fuel per day maybe a bit more. So, I am comfortable with food for a week with an 10oz bottle.
Between the stove, cup, 1.5ounce pump and 1 week of fuel, it just works well for a week or so, solo. Small and compact, heavy duty (don't need to pay special attention to it), along with the fuel and wind screen, it fits in one pocket. The whole thing IS a bit heavy at 27oz, though. Add a pot, lid and spoon and it is 30.8oz.
Anyway, for about 40 years it has been used with no real maintenance. I did dump an armful of logs on it one time and bent the pot stand a little, though...maybe 20 years ago. I straightened it out and just continue to use it.
For comparison, it uses between 1/3 and 1/2 the amount of fuel that the Simmerlite or Whisperlite uses. But, it is only capable of about half the heat... I never run it on high, though so it is hard to say.
Using the Pocket Rocket and Coleman F1, I found that the fuel consumption was poor in comparison. With a windscreen, both would overheat before they boiled water, even on low. A larger screen would not overheat, but, was no real help with efficiency. Anyway, I needed two 8oz canisters for the same 1 week period. Or roughly 24oz in fuel and can. A little less fuel, but more weight in containers.
In the ADK's, availability of everything besides WG is poor. Once you start hiking, do not expect to find canisters or alcohol on the trail. They may stock them early, but not many, and nothing you can count on. Alcohol is very difficult and only found in one of the larger towns at a hardware store. This is perhaps the lightest option, but, short of hiking miles out of the way, you cannot get denatured alcohol in the ADK's. Gas Stations do not carry HEET Yellow. They all carry the HEET Red or other isopropynol, not the methanol. White gas is common in quarts or gallons for the past 40 years. In a pinch, the 123 will burn auto gas, just not that well...often it needs to be cleaned before you can finish boiling a pot of water. Lately (with the alcohol "enriched" auto fuel) it runs better than with the older leaded fuel. Last year I got a little and it ran a bit better, but I still avoid it unless I am running out. With the additive, fewer and fewer gas stations are interested in stocking good "dry gas" anymore, either...so, some effect on the alcohol is noted. Canisters have a habit of screwing up on me. The valve gets stuck. Or, they will not release pressure into the stove. The older Pocket Rocket took a pliers to turn off else every time you turned it off it would bleed. I lost a half a can before I realized it was the stove. Alcohol stoves burn way too much fuel for all but short trips. I need about 2.5oz per day. So, even with a Caldera Cone, these are relegated to short two or three day trips. The Cone was not suitable for cooking, so it didn't get much use. Even after modifying the stove a bit to simmer.
Overall, the old SVEA is just my choice for longer trips. The durability of the little beast is legendary. I can do little to enhance that legend. Suffice it to say, it has never failed with the correct fuel in 40+ years of use. I have even put acetone in it, it does over-heat, but will burn fine for 5-7 minutes. WG+Alcohol works fine in it. A little more fuel consumption. I have heard old stories of dry cleaning fluid, but, I believe this was taken off the market (Benzene I think.) It does good in all categories except weight and heat production(snow melting.) So, it only gets an overall rating of good, despite it being my choice. Some of the newer stoves are very high tech. But, I don't need a blow torch. 2000btu works fine. 4000btu if I need to hurry. Still, I believe a 6oz titanium SVEA would likely blow them all away. Only the valve would remain unchanged to generate heat and pressure...a someday project.
My thoughts only . . .
jdm
James D. Marco
302 Mary Lane
Ithaca, NY 14850
607-273-9132 (land), 607-220-9969(cell)
-----Original Message-----
Don
Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2012 2:24 PM
Subject: [BackpackingLight] Re: Svea 123 comments (WAS
Looking to light backpacking but want...)
Mr. Marco,
I'm interested in your decision to use a Svea on longer
trips. I, too, appreciate the reliability of the Svea,
but have moved to a gas stove (Brunton Crux). In my
experience, butane stoves are equally reliable and
considerably lighter than a Svea, at least for trips of
several days or less. Data I've seen on the Web,
including at Zenstoves.com, support my weight-based
observations. Could you elaborate on your decision to
use a relatively heavy white gas stove instead of the
increasingly popular butane options? (I have to admit
that it pleasures me a little to know that somewhere,
someone is still using a good olde Svea.)
Regards,
Don Bushek
Ken
2012-05-01 23:29:16 UTC
Permalink
One day your butane stove won't work, for whatever reason, and you won't be
able to repair it in the field, and then you will know.

Just my opinion.

I don't use butane stoves on trips any more, I use either alcohol, white
gas, or kerosene, the other white gas.

Ken in NC
Robin Joy
2012-05-01 23:45:16 UTC
Permalink
I use wood never a problem look into a "Bush Buddy".
Post by Ken
One day your butane stove won't work, for whatever reason, and you won't be
able to repair it in the field, and then you will know.
Just my opinion.
I don't use butane stoves on trips any more, I use either alcohol, white
gas, or kerosene, the other white gas.
Ken in NC
Jim Marco
2012-05-02 00:00:36 UTC
Permalink
Hi Ken,
Yeah, kero is pretty good. It just seems to always leak a bit...ha, ha. Actually, that is not quite true, it just has a very low volatility so you can always smell it. Some of the high tech multi fuel stoves will actually use WG, Canisters or Kero. I borrowed one a number of years ago (maybe about 25) to check it out because I was interested in fuel economy...it is very similar to modern isobutane/propane blends as I remember. But, I typically used a separate Optimus nozzle for pours. After switching back I just put it back in my pack... Well, my pack smelled like kero for the rest of the year. It seems to get all over your pack no matter how hard you try not to. I switched back to WG. But, if I could get my hands on the prototype capillary stoves, I might bite the bullet for solo work. The MSR version was just too heavy, though. It is also hard to get going. The guy I borrowed it from suggested a small 1.5oz bottle of WG to start it. That was a good hint. I tried with raw kero and it smoked a LOT before it started running. Someone on the list also suggested alcohol.
My thoughts only . . .
Jdm
James D. Marco
302 Mary Lane
Ithaca, NY 14850
607-273-9132 (land), 607-220-9969(cell)
-----Original Message-----
Ken
Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2012 7:29 PM
Subject: Re: [BackpackingLight] Re: Svea 123 comments
(WAS Looking to light backpacking but want...)
One day your butane stove won't work, for whatever
reason, and you won't be able to repair it in the
field, and then you will know.
Just my opinion.
I don't use butane stoves on trips any more, I use
either alcohol, white gas, or kerosene, the other white
gas.
Ken in NC
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Ken
2012-05-02 01:16:03 UTC
Permalink
I have a 1934 Primus 210 sport with all parts, burns kero very nicely.
But not light by any means.

Ken
Ken
2012-05-02 01:17:19 UTC
Permalink
Oh ....prime kero with a small amount of alcohol.
That's why they are called spirit cups, alcohol=spirits.

Ken
Don
2012-05-03 12:13:55 UTC
Permalink
This thread is the first place that I've heard reports of gas stoves failing in the field. Have any of you besides Ken and Jim had trouble with this type of stove? There doesn't seem to be a lot to fail in a gas stove system.

Don Bushek
Post by Ken
One day your butane stove won't work, for whatever reason, and you won't be
able to repair it in the field, and then you will know.
Ken in NC
Jim Marco
2012-05-03 14:05:46 UTC
Permalink
Hey Don,
I can't say they fail a lot. Last I knew, the old wind pro still works with no problems. It lacks a swivel joint so it flips fairly easy iff you try to invert it. Anyway, canister stoves don't seem to like me. I gave them all away and now own none.
I am again looking at the Jet Boil (Sol.) It is no lighter than the SVEA, but if they turn out as reliable (I will wait a couple years) I may get one. On short trips, it would be far easier to use than fiddling with the little alcohol stoves I usually carry. Weight is sort of irrelevant since anything less than 20 pounds pack weight is OK.
Basically, all the stoves you can use have some sort of down side. Even the SVEA is just plain heavy. (Though the stove itself, without the cup is only 17oz.) This doesn't matter on long trips but it is a problem on short 4-6 day trips.
The other downside to toppers is the effects of cold weather. The really light ones are nice, but, they start losing heat at below 40F or so. I LIKE to go out in spring and fall when the temps are right around 55 during the day and 30 in the morning...good hiking weather. So, this is my primary objection to light toppers.
My thoughts only . . .
jdm
James D. Marco
302 Mary Lane
Ithaca, NY 14850
607-273-9132 (land), 607-220-9969(cell)
-----Original Message-----
Don
Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2012 8:14 AM
Subject: [BackpackingLight] Re: Svea 123 comments (WAS
Looking to light backpacking but want...)
This thread is the first place that I've heard reports
of gas stoves failing in the field. Have any of you
besides Ken and Jim had trouble with this type of
stove? There doesn't seem to be a lot to fail in a gas
stove system.
Don Bushek
Post by Ken
One day your butane stove won't work, for whatever
reason, and you
Post by Ken
won't be able to repair it in the field, and then you
will know.
Post by Ken
Ken in NC
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Eric Green
2012-05-03 15:14:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Don
This thread is the first place that I've heard reports of gas stoves failing in the field.
The only failure I've ever had was on a cheap $10 propane stove used for car-camping, where an O-ring failed and made it impossible to seal to the propane canister. At that point I pulled out my handy dandy Snow Peak isobutane stove and canister which were in my backpack (because I was planning on immediately heading out after my morning coffee after tossing the propane stove and canister back into my Jeep) and continued heating up the water for my morning coffee.

Said Snow Peak stove, BTW, is almost ten years old. Never a problem. Reliable as a rock. It doesn't have the fancy constant-pressure regulators and stuff of the newer stoves, but I only use it in warm weather (the SVEA is my go-to for cold weather), so I really don't care.
Ken
2012-05-03 22:12:56 UTC
Permalink
Ok, I should clarify, sorry ....
It is in cold weather that the butane would fail.

Mt Rainier Camp Muir ... 10,000 ft.
Canister stove wouldn't work, so the MSR WL was the only stove we had that
worked.

I never had a problem with my SP Giga-Power EXCEPT WHEN COLD.
But, if it isn't cold, I use my caldera cone.

Ken

--------------------------------------------------
Post by Eric Green
Said Snow Peak stove, BTW, is almost ten years old. Never a problem.
Reliable as a rock. It doesn't have the fancy constant-pressure regulators
and stuff of the newer stoves, but I only use it in warm weather (the SVEA
is my go-to for cold weather), so I really don't care.
Todd KE7KXI
2012-04-29 18:12:41 UTC
Permalink
Hey Chris,

I've recently went on the path to lightweight backpacking.
Besides Yogi's PCT Handbook, which is for thru hikers on the PCT, but the philosophy of lightweight or ultra light methods apply to many normal hikes.

But even more of a recommendation is Mike Clellands book "Ultralight backpackin' Book" http://ultralightbackpackintips.blogspot.com. By far, Mikes book had been the most educational.

Hope that helps!

Todd.
Chris Gilmore
2012-04-30 20:33:03 UTC
Permalink
yes I'm on page 80 already myself on Mike's book.
 
Chris Gilmore
(408) 461-1380


________________________________
From: Todd KE7KXI <ke7kxi-***@public.gmane.org>
To: "BackpackingLight-***@public.gmane.org" <BackpackingLight-***@public.gmane.org>
Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2012 11:12 AM
Subject: Re: [BackpackingLight] Looking to move towards light backpacking but want to maintain some comfort


 
Hey Chris,

I've recently went on the path to lightweight backpacking. 
Besides Yogi's PCT Handbook, which is for thru hikers on the PCT, but the philosophy of lightweight or ultra light methods apply to many normal hikes. 

But even more of a recommendation is Mike Clellands book "Ultralight backpackin' Book" http://ultralightbackpackintips.blogspot.com. By far, Mikes book had been the most educational.  

Hope that helps!

Todd. 
Jim Marco
2012-05-01 10:12:50 UTC
Permalink
Chris,
Yeah, Mike’s book is quite good. I have to laugh at some of the stuff he does. I have visions of him sliding down Mt Haystack but naked wiping his bottom on rocks
.I laugh every time. Other sections are quite serious, but, not really applicable to ADK hiking/camping. 15mi per day in some of the high peaks is a HUGE achievement. He recommends a small tarp which does not work well in the ADK’s (light, but with all the hills, highly variable winds with daily rains, usually a brief shower at night, being about average.)
Another good book is Andrew Skurka’s “The Ultimate Hikers Gear Guide”. I would disagree on points, but these are regional specific, not general.
My thoughts only . . .
jdm

James D. Marco
302 Mary Lane
Ithaca, NY 14850
607-273-9132 (land), 607-220-9969(cell)

From: ***@yahoogroups.com [mailto:***@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Gilmore
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2012 4:33 PM
To: ***@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [BackpackingLight] Looking to move towards light backpacking but want to maintain some comfort




yes I'm on page 80 already myself on Mike's book.

Chris Gilmore
(408) 461-1380
Steve Sergeant
2012-04-30 21:02:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Todd KE7KXI
But even more of a recommendation is Mike Clellands book "Ultralight
backpackin' Book" http://ultralightbackpackintips.blogspot.com. By far,
Mikes book had been the most educational.
Mike's "tips" book is great. But I consider it a follow-on supplement to
our own list moderator's small but thorough book on the subject, also
illustrated by Mike Clelland, Don Ladigin's "Lighten Up!" [
http://www.globepequot.com/lighten_up_-9780762737345 ].



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Chris Gilmore
2012-04-30 23:03:15 UTC
Permalink
I have purchased it along with Allen and Mikes' book but haven't gotten to them yet.

To be honest i only want to read so much i really want to experience some of this myself and see the changes. Although $20 in books might save me a $1000 in gear mistakes or so my buddy tells me.
 
Chris Gilmore
(408) 461-1380


________________________________
From: Steve Sergeant <SteveSgt-***@public.gmane.org>
To: BackpackingLight-***@public.gmane.org
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2012 2:02 PM
Subject: Re: [BackpackingLight] Looking to move towards light backpacking but want to maintain some comfort
Post by Todd KE7KXI
But even more of a recommendation is Mike Clellands book "Ultralight
backpackin' Book" http://ultralightbackpackintips.blogspot.com. By far,
Mikes book had been the most educational.
Mike's "tips" book is great. But I consider it a follow-on supplement to
our own list moderator's small but thorough book on the subject, also
illustrated by Mike Clelland, Don Ladigin's "Lighten Up!" [
http://www.globepequot.com/lighten_up_-9780762737345 ].



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Mike Tamada
2012-05-04 18:38:32 UTC
Permalink
donbushek <http://profiles.yahoo.com/donbushek>
Post by Don
This thread is the first place that I've heard reports of gas stoves
failing in the field. Have any of you besides Ken
Post by Don
and Jim had trouble with this type of stove? There doesn't seem to be a
lot to fail in a gas stove system.

Several years ago I bought an MSR Pocket Rocket. I carefully took the
precaution of trying it at home first, as expected it lit up easily.

That was the last time it ever worked.

I took it on a car camping trip to Chaco Canyon in New Mexico. It didn't
work. This was in January, with night-time lows in the low 20s. I babied
the canister, keeping it close to me, but when the stove didn't work I
figured that it must be the cold temps that were at fault.

(Thankfully it was car camping so I was ultra-redundant and had brought my
Whisperlite along as well.)


The next trip was a short overnight backpack in temperate conditions.
Stove still didn't light, luckily it being a short hike I again had
brought a second stove as backup.

Temperatures couldn't be at fault, so now I was thinking maybe the canister
had leaked fuel.

So I did the kitchen test again, with a brand new full canister. The stove
still wouldn't light.

I returned the stove to REI. Worst piece of cr*p equipment that I've ever
experienced.

I bought a Snow Peak Giga, which I have been extremely happy with. Some
people have reported problems with the piezo-electric lighter, but mine
fires up first time every time. (However I have not used it in below
freezing conditions, nor at altitudes above maybe 10 thousand feet.)


--MKT
Manny
2012-05-04 19:24:18 UTC
Permalink
I've had my MSR Pocket Rocket for a few years now. The only problem I've had is
that it doesn't work with the Coleman butane/propane canisters (70/30). The
others that are isobutane/propane seem to work fine. Most of the time, I've used
it in moderate temperatures but have had it down to freezing and it still
worked. Also, I built a windscreen for it that works great. I can post some
pictures if anyone is interested.

I mostly use a homemade alcohol stove. Took some practice, but I've used it down
to freezing. Needs a little coaxing to get it going, and sometimes need to wait
a bit longer for water to boil, but it always works.

I used Whisperlites years ago. Mostly relegated to car camping now. I had a
problem with one of them ONE time. Seems that the fuel line got gummed up and
just needed to be cleaned. I scoured it with the embedded cable and it worked
great. Too bad they are so heavy. BTW, I use alcohol to prime it so that I don't
end up with black soot all over everything.

Manny




________________________________
From: Mike Tamada <mktmkt42-***@public.gmane.org>
To: BackpackingLight-***@public.gmane.org
Sent: Fri, May 4, 2012 11:38:39 AM
Subject: [BackpackingLight] Re: Svea 123 comments (WAS Looking to light
backpacking but want...)
Post by Don
This thread is the first place that I've heard reports of gas stoves failing in
the field. Have any of you besides Ken
and Jim had trouble with this type of stove? There doesn't seem to be a lot to
fail in a gas stove system.
Several years ago I bought an MSR Pocket Rocket. I carefully took the
precaution of trying it at home first, as expected it lit up easily.

That was the last time it ever worked.

I took it on a car camping trip to Chaco Canyon in New Mexico. It didn't work.
This was in January, with night-time lows in the low 20s. I babied the
canister, keeping it close to me, but when the stove didn't work I figured that
it must be the cold temps that were at fault.

(Thankfully it was car camping so I was ultra-redundant and had brought my
Whisperlite along as well.)


The next trip was a short overnight backpack in temperate conditions. Stove
still didn't light, luckily it being a short hike I again had brought a second
stove as backup.

Temperatures couldn't be at fault, so now I was thinking maybe the canister had
leaked fuel.

So I did the kitchen test again, with a brand new full canister. The stove still
wouldn't light.

I returned the stove to REI. Worst piece of cr*p equipment that I've ever
experienced.

I bought a Snow Peak Giga, which I have been extremely happy with. Some people
have reported problems with the piezo-electric lighter, but mine fires up first
time every time. (However I have not used it in below freezing conditions, nor
at altitudes above maybe 10 thousand feet.)


--MKT
Sue Thoreson
2012-05-05 05:15:46 UTC
Permalink
Hi Manny, I have a Pocket Rocket also and have never had a problem with it.
Haven't been able to come up with a windscreen that isn't a pain to use.
Would be very interested to see pics if you don't mind posting some.

Sue
Post by Manny
**
I've had my MSR Pocket Rocket for a few years now. The only problem I've
had is that it doesn't work with the Coleman butane/propane canisters
(70/30). The others that are isobutane/propane seem to work fine. Most of
the time, I've used it in moderate temperatures but have had it down to
freezing and it still worked. Also, I built a windscreen for it that works
great. I can post some pictures if anyone is interested.
I mostly use a homemade alcohol stove. Took some practice, but I've used
it down to freezing. Needs a little coaxing to get it going, and sometimes
need to wait a bit longer for water to boil, but it always works.
I used Whisperlites years ago. Mostly relegated to car camping now. I had
a problem with one of them ONE time. Seems that the fuel line got gummed up
and just needed to be cleaned. I scoured it with the embedded cable and it
worked great. Too bad they are so heavy. BTW, I use alcohol to prime it so
that I don't end up with black soot all over everything.
Manny
------------------------------
*Sent:* Fri, May 4, 2012 11:38:39 AM
*Subject:* [BackpackingLight] Re: Svea 123 comments (WAS Looking to light
backpacking but want...)
donbushek <http://profiles.yahoo.com/donbushek>
Post by Don
This thread is the first place that I've heard reports of gas stoves
failing in the field. Have any of you besides Ken
Post by Don
and Jim had trouble with this type of stove? There doesn't seem to be a
lot to fail in a gas stove system.
Several years ago I bought an MSR Pocket Rocket. I carefully took the
precaution of trying it at home first, as expected it lit up easily.
That was the last time it ever worked.
I took it on a car camping trip to Chaco Canyon in New Mexico. It didn't
work. This was in January, with night-time lows in the low 20s. I babied
the canister, keeping it close to me, but when the stove didn't work I
figured that it must be the cold temps that were at fault.
(Thankfully it was car camping so I was ultra-redundant and had brought my
Whisperlite along as well.)
The next trip was a short overnight backpack in temperate conditions.
Stove still didn't light, luckily it being a short hike I again had
brought a second stove as backup.
Temperatures couldn't be at fault, so now I was thinking maybe the
canister had leaked fuel.
So I did the kitchen test again, with a brand new full canister. The stove
still wouldn't light.
I returned the stove to REI. Worst piece of cr*p equipment that I've ever
experienced.
I bought a Snow Peak Giga, which I have been extremely happy with. Some
people have reported problems with the piezo-electric lighter, but mine
fires up first time every time. (However I have not used it in below
freezing conditions, nor at altitudes above maybe 10 thousand feet.)
--MKT
Dennis Phelan
2012-05-04 19:32:15 UTC
Permalink
Personally I have used the pocket rocket very successfully many times in
all temperature and elevation conditions. I am sure you just got a
reject. I too have bought a Snow Peak giga but only because it folds up
better and fits inside my pot better than the pocket rocket. I actually
like the flame on the pocket rocket a little better (more forcefull), but
not enough of an issue to stop using it.

Dennis Phelan
Post by Mike Tamada
**
donbushek <http://profiles.yahoo.com/donbushek>
Post by Don
This thread is the first place that I've heard reports of gas stoves
failing in the field. Have any of you besides Ken
Post by Don
and Jim had trouble with this type of stove? There doesn't seem to be a
lot to fail in a gas stove system.
Several years ago I bought an MSR Pocket Rocket. I carefully took the
precaution of trying it at home first, as expected it lit up easily.
That was the last time it ever worked.
I took it on a car camping trip to Chaco Canyon in New Mexico. It didn't
work. This was in January, with night-time lows in the low 20s. I babied
the canister, keeping it close to me, but when the stove didn't work I
figured that it must be the cold temps that were at fault.
(Thankfully it was car camping so I was ultra-redundant and had brought my
Whisperlite along as well.)
The next trip was a short overnight backpack in temperate conditions.
Stove still didn't light, luckily it being a short hike I again had
brought a second stove as backup.
Temperatures couldn't be at fault, so now I was thinking maybe the
canister had leaked fuel.
So I did the kitchen test again, with a brand new full canister. The stove
still wouldn't light.
I returned the stove to REI. Worst piece of cr*p equipment that I've ever
experienced.
I bought a Snow Peak Giga, which I have been extremely happy with. Some
people have reported problems with the piezo-electric lighter, but mine
fires up first time every time. (However I have not used it in below
freezing conditions, nor at altitudes above maybe 10 thousand feet.)
--MKT
n***@public.gmane.org
2012-05-04 07:38:17 UTC
Permalink
Well, I think I’ll add in on this one...

Regarding the discussion of the use of white gas stoves in the cold or on snow, we’ve been teaching snow skills since 1982 and used the SVEA 123 from 1970 to the advent of the Jetboil. The only problem we ever had with a SVEA in all that time (included the PCT and CDT thru hikes) was one over-heat explosion (stove tossed out the tent door just in time!). Actually, we consider it fun to tinker with the priming of the thing while preparing to cook. Fun little stove!

With the creation of mixed propane/butane fuels, we have had no problems using the Jetboils during our winter skills instructional courses. We usually don’t even have to pre-warm the canisters in the morning, however it doesn’t hurt to do so.

We are now also happy with the MSR Reactor burner atop a mixed fuel canister. Quick boil times even in the snow!

(keep in mind, we are not ultra-lighters and most always pull our gear loaded on 5 and 7-foot Kifaru sleds over the snow...)


Ned Tibbits, Director
Mountain Education
South Lake Tahoe, CA
www.mountaineducation.org
Cara Lin Bridgman
2012-05-07 13:57:32 UTC
Permalink
Always fun to play with fire! This stove does make for a dramatic start.

CL
who likes her SVEA 123 but hasn't found it quite are reliable or
efficient as most--it tends to leak around the cleaning pin, even when
turned off.
Post by n***@public.gmane.org
Actually, we consider it fun to tinker with the priming of the thing
while preparing to cook. Fun little stove!
Ken
2012-05-07 14:45:02 UTC
Permalink
SVEA 123.

My understanding of the history of the SVEA 123 is ...
It was first made by Max Sievert till about 1969. It is VERY hard to find
one of those.

Optimus bought the company around 1969, and they have (some feel) degraded
since.
The most recent ones are made in that place in the far east (west of where I
live, and across a big ocean)

So, in all truth, in referring to the SVEA 123, it would be nice if you
could specify which version you are using.
They are not the same.

The original says SIEVERT on it.
They do say MADE IN SWEDEN

The ones after that, Optimus, have rings just below the burner bell on the
vaporizer tube.
They do say MADE IN SWEDEN.

The latest ones, do not say MADE IN SWEDEN.

I had one I used for many years, gave it away, regretfully, and have in the
last couple of years learned a lot about Swedish stoves from Spiritburner
forum www.spiritburner.com.
I must have over 40 stoves, I finally quit giving stoves away, and the
Swedish are a big part of the development of where we are now.
Must be the long winters cooped up thinking about ideas.

I have 2 Optimus SVEA 123s, a SVEA #5, and a nice SVEA 121L in a nice red
box about the size of a kids lunchbox.

Ken
I am still looking for an original Max Sievert 123, but don't want to have
to mortgage my deed to get one.

A leaking SVEA is easily repaired.
Cara Lin Bridgman
2012-05-07 15:53:50 UTC
Permalink
Advice, please. I keep trying to get mine right, but... I've consulted
online groups for the right number of clicks to insert the cleaning
needle and eventually bought bunches of replacement parts. The stove's
second wick and graphite gasket were jury rigged by me from mop yarn and
cardboard, respectively. This last was a field repair using the cover
of my notebook and pocket knife... Other than a slight tendency to leak
out the adjustment nozzle, the stove worked fine like that for a decade,
maybe...

I got mine in 1987 or so at a old gear sale by the wilderness program at
my college. I'm sure it had a hard life at the hands of many college
students over the years before I picked it up cheap--along with a SIGG
tourister cooking set with the housing to support large pots without
exploding (aka flaring) the stove, and some non-stove related gear.
The student in charge of the sale (and a few years ahead of me in
school) did not know what it was--so I got it extra cheap. Mine's made
in Sweden. It's a 123R--with the cleaning needle.

I've also a nice shiny-like new Korean knock-off that has a 'simmer'
burner on it for cooking rice. It came with a pump. It's also larger
and heavier than my SVEA, so it has hardly gotten any use.

CL
whose SVEA isn't the only thing she's still using from that sale...
Post by Ken
A leaking SVEA is easily repaired.
Jim Marco
2012-05-07 16:49:15 UTC
Permalink
Cara Lin,
http://packstoves.net/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=77&products_id=441
This lists a repair kit for the SVEA 123R. A&H occasionally gets them in. They listed 25 in stock. That's the trouble with good items. The repair kits are hard to find. If needed, I can forward it on to you, if they don't ship to Taiwan.
My thoughts only . . .
jdm
James D. Marco
302 Mary Lane
Ithaca, NY 14850
607-273-9132 (land), 607-220-9969(cell)
-----Original Message-----
Cara Lin Bridgman
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 11:54 AM
Subject: Re: [BackpackingLight] Re: Svea 123 comments
(my ALMOST informed opinion)
Advice, please. I keep trying to get mine right,
but... I've consulted online groups for the right
number of clicks to insert the cleaning needle and
eventually bought bunches of replacement parts. The
stove's second wick and graphite gasket were jury
rigged by me from mop yarn and cardboard, respectively.
This last was a field repair using the cover of my
notebook and pocket knife... Other than a slight
tendency to leak out the adjustment nozzle, the stove
worked fine like that for a decade, maybe...
I got mine in 1987 or so at a old gear sale by the
wilderness program at my college. I'm sure it had a
hard life at the hands of many college students over
the years before I picked it up cheap--along with a
SIGG tourister cooking set with the housing to support
large pots without
exploding (aka flaring) the stove, and some non-stove
related gear.
The student in charge of the sale (and a few years
ahead of me in
school) did not know what it was--so I got it extra
cheap. Mine's made in Sweden. It's a 123R--with the
cleaning needle.
I've also a nice shiny-like new Korean knock-off that
has a 'simmer'
burner on it for cooking rice. It came with a pump.
It's also larger and heavier than my SVEA, so it has
hardly gotten any use.
CL
whose SVEA isn't the only thing she's still using from
that sale...
Post by Ken
A leaking SVEA is easily repaired.
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n***@public.gmane.org
2012-05-07 18:33:50 UTC
Permalink
Ken!

Now you’ve got me curious about which ones (3, I think) I have in my equipment box, all from the ‘70s! I think they all have rings on the vaporizer tube...



Ned Tibbits, Director, Mountain Education
South Lake Tahoe, CA
www.mountaineducation.org

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