Discussion:
GoLite Continuum Pack
Kim Coupounas
2003-12-24 19:55:48 UTC
Permalink
Hi! And happy holidays! In response to Cerebus' email below, I thought I
should probably address GoLite's continuing commitment to ultralighters.

The "Unlimited" series of packs that we just introduced, including the 40
liter, 2lb 4oz Continuum pack mentioned below, were introduced for one sole
reason: to address the literally hundreds of requests we receive from
customers who desperately want to "go lite" but they are not willing to jump
all the way to one of our frame-less, top-loading sub-2 pound ultra-lite
packs.

These people are doing their best to lighten up the big items but until they
are willing to truly make the leap, but carrying their mid-range loads that
they're still attached to in ultra-lite packs is frankly uncomfortable (and
turns them off to the whole concept of going lite). We spent literally two
years trying to figure out how to build a lightweight pack that had the
structural integrity to carry heavier loads, for both people who are in
transition as well as for those who are going lite in the winter. We did it
by utilizing a thermomolded polystyrene framesheet (yep, the same stuff that
your mail carrier's mail bucket is made out of) with aluminum dowels. We
came to this solution after a slew of other interesting but failed
prototypes, using everything from titanium to sundry sorts of plastics. I
think we got it right in the new packs and they've been getting darned good
reviews from our customers and testers.

We want to help everybody to go lite, not just the folks who have already
figured out how to get to the edge. While we continue to introduce what I
consider some of the most innovative and lightest packs on the market to
meet the demand of informed readers like you guys (the Gust, Breeze, Dawn,
Jam, Speed, Team, Race, and Trek packs - plus many more to come in future
seasons), we also want to provide a bridge for people wanting to go lighter
but who don't know how to make it all the way to those packs. The Unlimited
packs (which were designed for lighweight four season backpacking) have an
ultra-lite framesheet built in, meaning that they can carry far heavier
loads comfortably while the packs themselves are really still quite
lightweight (all well under 3 pounds for 50L, 40L, and 30L packs). These
packs may not be the right packs for the ultra-litest among the BPL
readership, but they are ideal for someone wanting to from a pack that
weighs 6 or 7 pounds by itself to a better way --i.e., a 2.5 lb pack.

I hope that makes sense, and while I'm not putting this forth as some sort
of justification, I just wanted you guys to know that GoLite continues to be
committed to ultra-lite. We're also committed to lite, and we want to do
what we can to build a bridge for people to come our way.
Happy holidays to all!
Kim
GoLite
Boulder, Colorado

Message: 13
Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2003 16:04:44 -0000
From: "Tim" <cerebus_i_i-/***@public.gmane.org>
Subject: Re: Go-Lite Continuum Pack
Little more than 2,000 CI (+ 400 in pockets) and 2 lb 4 oz?! That
sounds like specs for a cordura day pack, not a backpack from
an "ultralight" company.
GoLite seems to be targeting climbers and runners more and more. I
have to wonder how much longer they will continue to serve the needs
of ultralighters.
-- Cerebus



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Paige
2003-12-24 20:02:47 UTC
Permalink
Kim,
Makes perfect sense, the one thing you did not mention are the people who have gone ultra-lite, tried it out for a while and decided it wasn't for them. Decided that a few more pounds were well worth it for a few more comforts. These packs will be perfect for them too! A few people are "leaping" back and need something in between to itch the lighter side yet support the x-tra pounds.

Happy Holidays to all!

Paige

----- Original Message -----
From: Kim Coupounas
To: BackpackingLight-***@public.gmane.org
Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 2003 11:55 AM
Subject: [BackpackingLight] GoLite Continuum Pack


Hi! And happy holidays! In response to Cerebus' email below, I thought I
should probably address GoLite's continuing commitment to ultralighters.

The "Unlimited" series of packs that we just introduced, including the 40
liter, 2lb 4oz Continuum pack mentioned below, were introduced for one sole
reason: to address the literally hundreds of requests we receive from
customers who desperately want to "go lite" but they are not willing to jump
all the way to one of our frame-less, top-loading sub-2 pound ultra-lite
packs.

These people are doing their best to lighten up the big items but until they
are willing to truly make the leap, but carrying their mid-range loads that
they're still attached to in ultra-lite packs is frankly uncomfortable (and
turns them off to the whole concept of going lite). We spent literally two
years trying to figure out how to build a lightweight pack that had the
structural integrity to carry heavier loads, for both people who are in
transition as well as for those who are going lite in the winter. We did it
by utilizing a thermomolded polystyrene framesheet (yep, the same stuff that
your mail carrier's mail bucket is made out of) with aluminum dowels. We
came to this solution after a slew of other interesting but failed
prototypes, using everything from titanium to sundry sorts of plastics. I
think we got it right in the new packs and they've been getting darned good
reviews from our customers and testers.

We want to help everybody to go lite, not just the folks who have already
figured out how to get to the edge. While we continue to introduce what I
consider some of the most innovative and lightest packs on the market to
meet the demand of informed readers like you guys (the Gust, Breeze, Dawn,
Jam, Speed, Team, Race, and Trek packs - plus many more to come in future
seasons), we also want to provide a bridge for people wanting to go lighter
but who don't know how to make it all the way to those packs. The Unlimited
packs (which were designed for lighweight four season backpacking) have an
ultra-lite framesheet built in, meaning that they can carry far heavier
loads comfortably while the packs themselves are really still quite
lightweight (all well under 3 pounds for 50L, 40L, and 30L packs). These
packs may not be the right packs for the ultra-litest among the BPL
readership, but they are ideal for someone wanting to from a pack that
weighs 6 or 7 pounds by itself to a better way --i.e., a 2.5 lb pack.

I hope that makes sense, and while I'm not putting this forth as some sort
of justification, I just wanted you guys to know that GoLite continues to be
committed to ultra-lite. We're also committed to lite, and we want to do
what we can to build a bridge for people to come our way.
Happy holidays to all!
Kim
GoLite
Boulder, Colorado

Message: 13
Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2003 16:04:44 -0000
From: "Tim" <cerebus_i_i-/***@public.gmane.org>
Subject: Re: Go-Lite Continuum Pack
Little more than 2,000 CI (+ 400 in pockets) and 2 lb 4 oz?! That
sounds like specs for a cordura day pack, not a backpack from
an "ultralight" company.
GoLite seems to be targeting climbers and runners more and more. I
have to wonder how much longer they will continue to serve the needs
of ultralighters.
-- Cerebus




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Aaron
2003-12-25 13:56:46 UTC
Permalink
Granite Gear Vapor Trail Pack: 3,600 CI , 2lb 4oz; $145.00 (list)
GoLite Continuum Pack: 2,050 CI, 2lb 4 oz; $159.00 (list)

I agree that comfort is a significant concern when evaluating a
pack, and that simple weight/volume ratios are not the total
concern. Above 25 lbs, frameless packs uniformly start to suffer in
the comfort department. I'm not a pack manufacturer but I've
personally tried (and re-sold) more than 50 different packs over 20
years of hiking. It doesn't make me an expert, it just documents my
experience (and my ridiculous gear obsession :-0 )

With all due respect to Kim's authority, I still maintain that 2,050
CI (32 L) main pack compartment volume is too small to be a viable
backpack for most hikers (especially "transition" hikers going
from "regular" to "ultralight"), even for a weekend trip in the
summer. Some people might be able or willing to compress their
sleeping bag down far enough to make room for the rest of the gear,
but that's neither desirable nor necessary.

Unless one is carrying dense, heavy gear (ie. climbing rope, rock
cams, etc), one is going to have a very difficult time getting their
minimum gear to fit inside a 2,000 CI pack, let alone the 30 lbs the
framesheet is designed to support. The Granite Gear pack menitoned
above is running a minimum of 60 L and is basically the same weight
as the small end of the Golite unlimited series. I haven't tried on
the Continuum for comfort, but I have a hard time believing that it
could be MORE comfortable that the GG model. Some may disagree with
me, but I think Golite needs to return to the drawing board on this
one if the target customer is a backpacker rather than a climber.

Aaron
Post by Kim Coupounas
Hi! And happy holidays! In response to Cerebus' email below, I
thought I
Post by Kim Coupounas
should probably address GoLite's continuing commitment to
ultralighters.
Post by Kim Coupounas
The "Unlimited" series of packs that we just introduced, including the 40
liter, 2lb 4oz Continuum pack mentioned below, were introduced for one sole
reason: to address the literally hundreds of requests we receive from
customers who desperately want to "go lite" but they are not
willing to jump
Post by Kim Coupounas
all the way to one of our frame-less, top-loading sub-2 pound
ultra-lite
Post by Kim Coupounas
packs.
These people are doing their best to lighten up the big items but until they
are willing to truly make the leap, but carrying their mid-range loads that
they're still attached to in ultra-lite packs is frankly
uncomfortable (and
Post by Kim Coupounas
turns them off to the whole concept of going lite). We spent
literally two
Post by Kim Coupounas
years trying to figure out how to build a lightweight pack that had the
structural integrity to carry heavier loads, for both people who are in
transition as well as for those who are going lite in the winter. We did it
by utilizing a thermomolded polystyrene framesheet (yep, the same stuff that
your mail carrier's mail bucket is made out of) with aluminum
dowels. We
Post by Kim Coupounas
came to this solution after a slew of other interesting but failed
prototypes, using everything from titanium to sundry sorts of
plastics. I
Post by Kim Coupounas
think we got it right in the new packs and they've been getting darned good
reviews from our customers and testers.
We want to help everybody to go lite, not just the folks who have already
figured out how to get to the edge. While we continue to introduce what I
consider some of the most innovative and lightest packs on the
market to
Post by Kim Coupounas
meet the demand of informed readers like you guys (the Gust,
Breeze, Dawn,
Post by Kim Coupounas
Jam, Speed, Team, Race, and Trek packs - plus many more to come in future
seasons), we also want to provide a bridge for people wanting to go lighter
but who don't know how to make it all the way to those packs. The Unlimited
packs (which were designed for lighweight four season backpacking) have an
ultra-lite framesheet built in, meaning that they can carry far heavier
loads comfortably while the packs themselves are really still quite
lightweight (all well under 3 pounds for 50L, 40L, and 30L packs). These
packs may not be the right packs for the ultra-litest among the BPL
readership, but they are ideal for someone wanting to from a pack that
weighs 6 or 7 pounds by itself to a better way --i.e., a 2.5 lb pack.
I hope that makes sense, and while I'm not putting this forth as some sort
of justification, I just wanted you guys to know that GoLite
continues to be
Post by Kim Coupounas
committed to ultra-lite. We're also committed to lite, and we want to do
what we can to build a bridge for people to come our way.
Happy holidays to all!
Kim
GoLite
Boulder, Colorado
Message: 13
Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2003 16:04:44 -0000
Subject: Re: Go-Lite Continuum Pack
Little more than 2,000 CI (+ 400 in pockets) and 2 lb 4 oz?! That
sounds like specs for a cordura day pack, not a backpack from
an "ultralight" company.
GoLite seems to be targeting climbers and runners more and more. I
have to wonder how much longer they will continue to serve the
needs
Post by Kim Coupounas
of ultralighters.
-- Cerebus
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Jon Bongiorno
2003-12-25 15:06:09 UTC
Permalink
So don't buy the thing!

GoLite is still going to make packs for ULTAlighters. They're just trying to expand their product line. I'm sure over time they'll get the size issue figured out. Just because it isn't perfect the first time out, that's OK. GoLite makes a great product. I don't think the dementions are right yet either but, give them time. Besides, IF you mountaineer at all, this might be a GREAT pack for single day more technical summits. small size, light weight, but still able to carry some weight. The bottom line here is It's not marketed as an Ultralight Backpack. So don't go out and buy it, if you don't think it will work for YOU!

Have a Merry Christmas EVERYONE.

Jon
----- Original Message -----
From: Aaron
To: BackpackingLight-***@public.gmane.org
Sent: Thursday, December 25, 2003 5:56 AM
Subject: [BackpackingLight] Re: GoLite Continuum Pack


Granite Gear Vapor Trail Pack: 3,600 CI , 2lb 4oz; $145.00 (list)
GoLite Continuum Pack: 2,050 CI, 2lb 4 oz; $159.00 (list)

I agree that comfort is a significant concern when evaluating a
pack, and that simple weight/volume ratios are not the total
concern. Above 25 lbs, frameless packs uniformly start to suffer in
the comfort department. I'm not a pack manufacturer but I've
personally tried (and re-sold) more than 50 different packs over 20
years of hiking. It doesn't make me an expert, it just documents my
experience (and my ridiculous gear obsession :-0 )

With all due respect to Kim's authority, I still maintain that 2,050
CI (32 L) main pack compartment volume is too small to be a viable
backpack for most hikers (especially "transition" hikers going
from "regular" to "ultralight"), even for a weekend trip in the
summer. Some people might be able or willing to compress their
sleeping bag down far enough to make room for the rest of the gear,
but that's neither desirable nor necessary.

Unless one is carrying dense, heavy gear (ie. climbing rope, rock
cams, etc), one is going to have a very difficult time getting their
minimum gear to fit inside a 2,000 CI pack, let alone the 30 lbs the
framesheet is designed to support. The Granite Gear pack menitoned
above is running a minimum of 60 L and is basically the same weight
as the small end of the Golite unlimited series. I haven't tried on
the Continuum for comfort, but I have a hard time believing that it
could be MORE comfortable that the GG model. Some may disagree with
me, but I think Golite needs to return to the drawing board on this
one if the target customer is a backpacker rather than a climber.

Aaron




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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Aaron
2003-12-25 16:05:20 UTC
Permalink
The point of my post was not "I wouldn't buy this pack." Replying to
a post that offers an assessment or opinion about a piece of gear
with "so don't buy the thing" seems pointless to me. You could offer
that response to any review or opinion.

The purpose of this site is to compare and discuss hiking gear. The
point of my post was to contrast two packs with similar suspension
systems having nearly equal weight but HUGELY disparate volume
capacities. The continuum may very well be a good climbing pack, but
it's ALSO being marketed (in part) as appropriate for "4 season"
backpacking (not specifically ultralight). My point was (and is)
that it's not an appropriate pack for ANYONE intending to use it for
BACKPACKING (ultralight or otherwise) unless they are willing to go
to extraordinary measures to reduce their gear volume. That's it.

Product loyalty to Golite is irrelevant to this discussion. Whether
or not they "get it right the first time" is also irrelevant. The
point is to help people decide whether or not to pay good money for
the pack for their intended use. I didn't say that Golite produces a
bad product. I own lots of Golite gear. IMHO this particular pack
line is already being out-gunned by other packs already on the
market and my simple point is that this particular pack is not a
viable, competitive product for backpacking, as outlined in Kim's
post.

Aaron
Post by Jon Bongiorno
So don't buy the thing!
GoLite is still going to make packs for ULTAlighters. They're
just trying to expand their product line. I'm sure over time
they'll get the size issue figured out. Just because it isn't
perfect the first time out, that's OK. GoLite makes a great
product. I don't think the dementions are right yet either but,
give them time. Besides, IF you mountaineer at all, this might be a
GREAT pack for single day more technical summits. small size, light
weight, but still able to carry some weight. The bottom line here
is It's not marketed as an Ultralight Backpack. So don't go out and
buy it, if you don't think it will work for YOU!
Post by Jon Bongiorno
Have a Merry Christmas EVERYONE.
Jon
----- Original Message -----
From: Aaron
Sent: Thursday, December 25, 2003 5:56 AM
Subject: [BackpackingLight] Re: GoLite Continuum Pack
Granite Gear Vapor Trail Pack: 3,600 CI , 2lb 4oz; $145.00 (list)
GoLite Continuum Pack: 2,050 CI, 2lb 4 oz; $159.00 (list)
I agree that comfort is a significant concern when evaluating a
pack, and that simple weight/volume ratios are not the total
concern. Above 25 lbs, frameless packs uniformly start to suffer in
the comfort department. I'm not a pack manufacturer but I've
personally tried (and re-sold) more than 50 different packs over 20
years of hiking. It doesn't make me an expert, it just documents my
experience (and my ridiculous gear obsession :-0 )
With all due respect to Kim's authority, I still maintain that 2,050
CI (32 L) main pack compartment volume is too small to be a
viable
Post by Jon Bongiorno
backpack for most hikers (especially "transition" hikers going
from "regular" to "ultralight"), even for a weekend trip in the
summer. Some people might be able or willing to compress their
sleeping bag down far enough to make room for the rest of the gear,
but that's neither desirable nor necessary.
Unless one is carrying dense, heavy gear (ie. climbing rope,
rock
Post by Jon Bongiorno
cams, etc), one is going to have a very difficult time getting their
minimum gear to fit inside a 2,000 CI pack, let alone the 30 lbs the
framesheet is designed to support. The Granite Gear pack
menitoned
Post by Jon Bongiorno
above is running a minimum of 60 L and is basically the same
weight
Post by Jon Bongiorno
as the small end of the Golite unlimited series. I haven't tried on
the Continuum for comfort, but I have a hard time believing that it
could be MORE comfortable that the GG model. Some may disagree with
me, but I think Golite needs to return to the drawing board on this
one if the target customer is a backpacker rather than a climber.
Aaron
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Yellow Jacket
2003-12-25 17:12:55 UTC
Permalink
Aaron, you bring up some excellent points about the Continuum. It does seem
to be a bit too small for a backpacker-in-UL-transition pack. Now, 2000ci
is plenty of room for the UL crowd, but then they wouldn't want to carry a
2+# pack with that volume. As such, this pack doesn't fit any
**backpacking** niche I can think of. Except for maybe a GoLite label
whore's day pack.

Now, the Infinity (the largest of the "new" packs from GoLite), at 50L and
2# 7oz (listed at 2#4oz on bpl.com), its description reads like the very
good pack. Plenty of volume and the ability to comfortably carry 30-40#
(lots of food and water??) sounds like a dream.

If I were critical (based on picture and description alone) of the Infinity,
I'd remove the top lid, the two zippered pockets, one of the two compression
straps and the hydration sleeve (these are not needed on a small pack, as
your load and compression straps will keep the bladder in place). These
items are really just gimmicks at add weight. I would add a bit more volume
to the main bag, a mesh front pocket and a dry bag style closure. In short
a bit more volume and less weight. The pack would end up being a Breeze
with a hip belt and a frame (I think the Breeze has a compression strap and
dry bag top).

I have always thought the Breeze had the perfect volume (assuming it has a
compression strap) and features (large mesh pocket, dry bag top). Add a
lightweight frame that has some curve it (A feature that most UL packs
woefully lack) and a hipbelt and you have the perfect pack.

Yellow Jacket
----- Original Message -----
Post by Aaron
IMHO this particular pack
line is already being out-gunned by other packs already on the
market and my simple point is that this particular pack is not a
viable, competitive product for backpacking, as outlined in Kim's
post.
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Bill Fornshell
2003-12-25 17:41:12 UTC
Permalink
Hi Yellow Jacket, Sounds like your modification to
the pack on one of my "light-20oz or ultra lite 8.9oz"
pack frames would make a great home made pack. Bill in
Texas
Post by Yellow Jacket
Aaron, you bring up some excellent points about the
Continuum. It does seem
to be a bit too small for a
backpacker-in-UL-transition pack. Now, 2000ci
is plenty of room for the UL crowd, but then they
wouldn't want to carry a
2+# pack with that volume. As such, this pack
doesn't fit any
**backpacking** niche I can think of. Except for
maybe a GoLite label
whore's day pack.
Now, the Infinity (the largest of the "new" packs
from GoLite), at 50L and
2# 7oz (listed at 2#4oz on bpl.com), its description
reads like the very
good pack. Plenty of volume and the ability to
comfortably carry 30-40#
(lots of food and water??) sounds like a dream.
If I were critical (based on picture and description
alone) of the Infinity,
I'd remove the top lid, the two zippered pockets,
one of the two compression
straps and the hydration sleeve (these are not
needed on a small pack, as
your load and compression straps will keep the
bladder in place). These
items are really just gimmicks at add weight. I
would add a bit more volume
to the main bag, a mesh front pocket and a dry bag
style closure. In short
a bit more volume and less weight. The pack would
end up being a Breeze
with a hip belt and a frame (I think the Breeze has
a compression strap and
dry bag top).
I have always thought the Breeze had the perfect
volume (assuming it has a
compression strap) and features (large mesh pocket,
dry bag top). Add a
lightweight frame that has some curve it (A feature
that most UL packs
woefully lack) and a hipbelt and you have the
perfect pack.
Yellow Jacket
----- Original Message -----
Post by Aaron
IMHO this particular pack
line is already being out-gunned by other packs
already on the
Post by Aaron
market and my simple point is that this particular
pack is not a
Post by Aaron
viable, competitive product for backpacking, as
outlined in Kim's
Post by Aaron
post.
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Andy Mytys
2003-12-26 15:51:28 UTC
Permalink
Now, 2000ci is plenty of room for the UL crowd
Oh really? For what, an UL dayhike?

I could see 2000 cubes being enough for the backpackinglight.com sub
5lb gear list (maybe), or when hiking in humid summer conditions in
my state (MI) where you've got a water source every 6-10 miles and
the night temps don't dip below 85 (no sleeping bag required).

But I still have to take food!

In what conditions do YOU feel that 2000 cubes contains "plenty of
room?"

What gear would YOU take in it for an overnight?

How many days out could YOU make this pack work?
If I were critical (based on picture and description alone) of the
Infinity, I'd remove the top lid
I loce packs with top lids, providing they are "floating" top lids.
Pack manufacturers who sew the back of the lid pocket to the pack
aren't doing anyone any favors, IMO. I floating top lid allows for
quick access to gear, conversion to a small daypack, room for pack
expansion by compressing a stuff sack worth of gear in the space
between the lid pocket and the pack body, and, by being "floating",
can be removed so it's really an optional few extra ounces that you
can carry.
I have always thought the Breeze had the perfect volume (assuming
it has a compression strap) and features (large mesh pocket, dry
bag top). Add a lightweight frame that has some curve it (A
feature that most UL packs woefully lack) and a hipbelt and you
have the perfect pack.
I would agree, but add that while the Breeze may have a "perfect
volume," the distribution of that volume is screwed. The Breeze,
IMO, would be a much better pack if is was also a bit wider. IMO, a
packs width should always be such that it will fit a Garcia bear
canister along its horizontal.





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Yellow Jacket
2003-12-26 17:13:03 UTC
Permalink
Is 2000 ci enough?
Yes, more than enough room for a ~12# base weight. Plus food for 3-4 nights.
I assume you can carry 2qts in the side pockets. Access to water would be
the limiting factor. With pre-hydration, 2 qts ought to get you at least 10
miles if you are not in the desert.

I own a Equinox Katahdin that according to www.backcountrygear.com is a
3350ci pack (probably excludes the super tiny zippered pockets). On a
recent 2 night trip I had my WM MityLite, a cheapo fleece, rain jacket,
spare socks, gloves, hat, silk liner, pot/stove/fuel, food for 2 full days,
HH, wallyworld blue pad 20x55x3/8, couple of stuff sacks, flip-flops, water
treatment, head lamp, first aid a really bad 200 page paperback book. I let
the bag take up the bottom *HALF* of the pack and put the rest of the stuff
on top. And tightened the pack's compression straps.

If I had used the bag's own stuff sack (size of a football) and used my
therna-rest UL pad (another football) I could have easily fit all of this
into a 2000ci pack with room to spare.

Did you see Ryan's recent posting? He had far more stuff in the Continuum
Pack than my above list.

I might have a change of heart with regard to the Continuum Pack. It now
reads like the perfect lightweight/UL pack. Gram weenies and
compression-phobes might say otherwise. I think I'd buy the 60L "version"
site unseen to be my new "dad the packmule" pack. Too bad it won't be
available until next year ('05?).
Top Lid comments...
Some folks do like to place things under them. And, if they are removable
(most are not for some stupid reason), they do make good day packs.
Regarding access, since I typically have to remove my pack to access the
lid, access the top of the main pack bag is just as easy. Especially if
there isn't a lid in they way. I guess the lid, no lid, thing is more of a
style thing.
Breeze width...
I have not used the Breeze personally. But you are correct, every non-day
pack should be able to hold a bear canister horizontal.

Yellow Jacket
----- Original Message -----
Now, 2000ci is plenty of room for the UL crowd
Oh really? For what, an UL dayhike?
I loce packs with top lids, providing they are "floating" top lids.
Pack manufacturers who sew the back of the lid pocket to the pack
aren't doing anyone any favors, IMO.
packs width should always be such that it will fit a Garcia bear
canister along its horizontal.
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Andy Mytys
2003-12-26 20:48:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Yellow Jacket
Is 2000 ci enough?
Yes, more than enough room for a ~12# base weight. Plus food for 3
4 nights.
I just can't see how you guys get that much food into your packs.

Is there a special trick to how you pack your food, or you do just
toss it all into the same stuff sack and put that into the pack?

I find food is one of those items that takes up way more space than
it should. I find it easier to pack into a manageable space when I
have a hard and confining container, like a bear canister. Such a
canister allows me to really get things pushed to corners and such.
In a stuffsack, it is difficult to get that rigid and uniform shape
going such that the sack starts shifting all over the place.
Post by Yellow Jacket
I assume you can carry 2qts in the side pockets. Access to water
would be the limiting factor.
So you're going over the 2000 cubes?

These outside/side mesh pockets are fantastic, but I must admit that
it often seems that I am placing as much gear, if not more, into them
than I am into the main pack compartment itself.

Side/rear mesh pockets - tarp, stakes, bivy, ground sheet, water,
fuel, compass, TP, 1st aid kit, hygiene kit, LED light

Pack - sleeping bag, pad, thermal jacket, spare clothes, food, cook
pot, windscreen, stove, spoon




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Ryan Jordan
2003-12-26 20:59:48 UTC
Permalink
Andy - you are right. Food can take a lot of space. I focus on high
density foods. Meusli for breakfast, nuts and dried meats for lunch, and
rice or crushed pasta based meals for dinner. I use a 500-600 cubic inch
stuff sack for 4-5 days of food with 20-22 oz or 2400 cal/day. -- Ryan


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Andy Mytys
2003-12-26 23:09:13 UTC
Permalink
WOW - now this is an idea for a future BPL.com article. Recipies
that will get you the most amount of cals with the least amount of
pack space!

As for taste, that's what the "Dave's Insanity Sauce" is for :)

I'm not saying that this 2000 pack can't be used... it's just traffic
is low and this discussion seems like it can ferret out a LOT of
technique-type issues that are not normally discussed on this forum.
Post by Ryan Jordan
Andy - you are right. Food can take a lot of space. I focus on high
density foods. Meusli for breakfast, nuts and dried meats for
lunch, and
Post by Ryan Jordan
rice or crushed pasta based meals for dinner. I use a 500-600 cubic inch
stuff sack for 4-5 days of food with 20-22 oz or 2400 cal/day. -- Ryan
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Tom Burnett
2003-12-27 00:42:55 UTC
Permalink
http://tinyurl.com/3ej5n

foodtalk on another forum asking this exact question, with a file
suggested,

www.pcta.org/planning/before_trip/health/canistercare.doc
Post by Andy Mytys
WOW - now this is an idea for a future BPL.com article.
Recipies
Post by Andy Mytys
that will get you the most amount of cals with the least amount of
pack space!
As for taste, that's what the "Dave's Insanity Sauce" is for :)
I'm not saying that this 2000 pack can't be used... it's just traffic
is low and this discussion seems like it can ferret out a LOT of
technique-type issues that are not normally discussed on this
forum.
Post by Andy Mytys
Post by Ryan Jordan
Andy - you are right. Food can take a lot of space. I focus on high
density foods. Meusli for breakfast, nuts and dried meats for
lunch, and
Post by Ryan Jordan
rice or crushed pasta based meals for dinner. I use a
500-600 cubic
Post by Andy Mytys
inch
Post by Ryan Jordan
stuff sack for 4-5 days of food with 20-22 oz or 2400 cal/day.
--
Post by Andy Mytys
Ryan
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Tony
2003-12-27 03:14:56 UTC
Permalink
I think it would make a great article too.
Though in my case I don't think Id need so many extra cals for a while.
A person my size could peobably make it on just soups.
Tony.

----- Original Message -----
From: Andy Mytys
To: BackpackingLight-***@public.gmane.org
Sent: Friday, December 26, 2003 5:09 PM
Subject: [BackpackingLight] Re: GoLite Continuum Pack



WOW - now this is an idea for a future BPL.com article. Recipies
that will get you the most amount of cals with the least amount of
pack space!

As for taste, that's what the "Dave's Insanity Sauce" is for :)

I'm not saying that this 2000 pack can't be used... it's just traffic
is low and this discussion seems like it can ferret out a LOT of
technique-type issues that are not normally discussed on this forum.
Post by Ryan Jordan
Andy - you are right. Food can take a lot of space. I focus on high
density foods. Meusli for breakfast, nuts and dried meats for
lunch, and
Post by Ryan Jordan
rice or crushed pasta based meals for dinner. I use a 500-600 cubic inch
stuff sack for 4-5 days of food with 20-22 oz or 2400 cal/day. -- Ryan
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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Bill Crawford
2003-12-27 15:34:37 UTC
Permalink
Ryan notes below that he takes about 2400 cal/day. I'm curious what others
find they need when hiking. On a trip this fall I consumed 3000 cal/day and
lost 1-2 pounds in 8 days of moderate hiking -- only ~ 10 miles per day
with lots of fishing thrown in.



Thanks.



Bill in Louisiana



_____

From: Ryan Jordan [mailto:bigskyry-UFS7mITjnAgG+qgXPD+xy1aTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org]
Sent: Friday, December 26, 2003 3:00 PM
To: BackpackingLight-***@public.gmane.org
Subject: Re: [BackpackingLight] Re: GoLite Continuum Pack



Andy - you are right. Food can take a lot of space. I focus on high
density foods. Meusli for breakfast, nuts and dried meats for lunch, and
rice or crushed pasta based meals for dinner. I use a 500-600 cubic inch
stuff sack for 4-5 days of food with 20-22 oz or 2400 cal/day. -- Ryan








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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Paul L. Sailer
2003-12-27 16:15:30 UTC
Permalink
I'd appreciate information about:
How much does silnylon suitable for making a homemade tent cost?

Where could I buy it.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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Paul L. Sailer
2003-12-27 16:16:38 UTC
Permalink
I'd appreciate information about:
How much does silnylon suitable for making a homemade tent cost?

Where could I buy it.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I want to modify an existing tent, so I don't need much.





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procab
2003-12-27 16:38:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul L. Sailer
How much does silnylon suitable for making a homemade tent cost?
Where could I buy it.
Both
http://owareusa.com/fabric.html
and
http://tinyurl.com/3yrcl
carry silnylon.

Robert



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larc44us
2003-12-27 18:51:54 UTC
Permalink
thttp://www.noahlamport.com/store/default.asp Try this site--- In
Post by Paul L. Sailer
How much does silnylon suitable for making a homemade tent cost?
Where could I buy it.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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larc44us
2003-12-27 19:02:00 UTC
Permalink
Try this site ,I just got
some.http://www.noahlamport.com/store/default.asp




.--- In
Post by Paul L. Sailer
How much does silnylon suitable for making a homemade tent cost?
Where could I buy it.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Andy Mytys
2003-12-27 18:59:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Crawford
Ryan notes below that he takes about 2400 cal/day. I'm curious
what others find they need when hiking.
My body craves 3000-3500/day, which weighs anywhere from 2-2.25
lbs/day. That maintains my 165lb weight... maybe I do lose a little
even... hiking up to 20 miles/day on relatively flat terrain. Drop
the miles down to 15 when in the mountains.



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Suzi
2003-12-28 19:27:18 UTC
Permalink
I could see where you would have problems with a small volume pack. I
pack probably 2000 calories a day, give or take. But I also am
smaller and don't hike as far as a rule, especially in the mountains.
Post by Andy Mytys
Post by Bill Crawford
Ryan notes below that he takes about 2400 cal/day. I'm curious
what others find they need when hiking.
My body craves 3000-3500/day, which weighs anywhere from 2-2.25
lbs/day. That maintains my 165lb weight... maybe I do lose a
little
Post by Andy Mytys
even... hiking up to 20 miles/day on relatively flat terrain. Drop
the miles down to 15 when in the mountains.
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Rick D.
2003-12-27 20:09:46 UTC
Permalink
I don't know how Ryan does it on so little food, considering he's
hiking in high country and in pretty severe conditions.

Brian Robinson notes that he had to average 6k calories/day to
maintain his weight on his triple-crown year. A thru-hiker who hits
the trail in shape simply cannot affort to lose weight. An office-
bound slug such as myself usually can :-)

Still, I was startled to find I'd lost 12 pounds on an 8-day trip
last September, because I'd thought we'd been eating well (estimated
3.5-4.5k calories/day). I think it was a combination of the tough
hiking, the high altitude (10-12k) and the cold weather. Living at
sea level where the summers are hot, it's alway tough to get
conditioned to hike in such "alien" conditions.

--Rick
Post by Bill Crawford
Ryan notes below that he takes about 2400 cal/day. I'm curious what others
find they need when hiking. On a trip this fall I consumed 3000 cal/day and
lost 1-2 pounds in 8 days of moderate hiking -- only ~ 10 miles per day
with lots of fishing thrown in.
Thanks.
Bill in Louisiana
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sawwhetowl
2003-12-27 20:57:00 UTC
Permalink
Let's not forget that we are all unique individuals.
I have thru hiked the pct and the cdt, and while I do not know
the calorie count I do know the weight of food per day- 16-18oz...
miso, almonds, pumpkin seeds, oatmeal, jerky, quinoa, dried veggie
mix, chili, split pea soup, cous cous, instant mashed potatoes,
almond butter, and bread. Initally I lose about 15lb the first
couple of weeks, then I maintain. Of course, town visits break the
bank, anything and everything I want. If I ate 6000 calories a day I
be friggin' sick!
P.S. My present favorite pack is the GG Vapor Trail
Post by Rick D.
I don't know how Ryan does it on so little food, considering he's
hiking in high country and in pretty severe conditions.
Brian Robinson notes that he had to average 6k calories/day to
maintain his weight on his triple-crown year. A thru-hiker who
hits
Post by Rick D.
the trail in shape simply cannot affort to lose weight. An office-
bound slug such as myself usually can :-)
Still, I was startled to find I'd lost 12 pounds on an 8-day trip
last September, because I'd thought we'd been eating well
(estimated
Post by Rick D.
3.5-4.5k calories/day). I think it was a combination of the tough
hiking, the high altitude (10-12k) and the cold weather. Living at
sea level where the summers are hot, it's alway tough to get
conditioned to hike in such "alien" conditions.
--Rick
Post by Bill Crawford
Ryan notes below that he takes about 2400 cal/day. I'm curious
what others
Post by Bill Crawford
find they need when hiking. On a trip this fall I consumed 3000
cal/day and
Post by Bill Crawford
lost 1-2 pounds in 8 days of moderate hiking -- only ~ 10 miles
per day
Post by Bill Crawford
with lots of fishing thrown in.
Thanks.
Bill in Louisiana
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Ryan Jordan
2003-12-27 21:12:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rick D.
I don't know how Ryan does it on so little food, considering he's
hiking in high country and in pretty severe conditions.
OK, when Glen and Alan and I hiked the Winds this fall, I forced a mass
exodus of food out of their packs prior to the trip. We left the trailhead
with 19 (me), 22 (Glen), and 24 (Alan) oz of food per day. We hiked 20
mile days, were at 10,000 feet or higher for nearly the whole trip, had
high winds, cold temps, and stormy conditions for the last half. Yet, by
the end, none of us lost weight. How can this be!

I think it really has to do with hiking efficiently. Alan and I have
studied this pretty intensely over the past few years. We have hiked while
carefully monitoring our heart and respiration rates, and have adjusted
our style accordingly in an effort to keep those levels as even as
possible with few accelerations, especially in strenuous stretches of
terrain. And so, we say, "to heck with hiking pace" and focus on
maintaining an even burn rate. Further, we maintain a level of
conditioning throughout the season that allows us to hike at what we
perceive to be an optimum burn rate, which is a heart rate of around 105
to 125 per min (we are both around 155 lbs and one of us is still young
enough to have not seen a birthday with black balloons). Science says, and
based on experience in being able to lower my calorie consumption with no
ill effects, that this heart rate is optimum for burning fats with very
little waste. Lower than that and you'll never get where you are going and
higher than that you'll waste a lot of calories due to incomplete aerobic
metabolism of your foods. Analogy: It's like driving on the highway. I can
drive 50 mph and get 31 mpg in my Subaru but if I ramp it up to 70 mph I'm
down to 23 mpg. Why? The engine is designed for an optimum energy
expenditure of something less than 70 mph.

So, using the combination of maintaining excellent off-season
conditioning, packing high-fat, dense foods, monitoring my energy
expenditure on the trail by maintaining an exertion rate that optimizes
fat-burning, I can easily hike a 20 mile day in the mountains on 20 oz/day
2400 cal diet in the summer-fall. Three years ago I was packing 32 oz/day
and 3600 cals.

The only time I really pack outlandish quantities of food is when I'm
climbing or fastpacking and trying to do 30 mile days in the mountains or
a high rate of elevation gain, as when ice or alpine climbing. Then, 5000
or more calories per day can be burned pretty easily.

Also, you can't really do this on a hike longer than two or three weeks.
It takes 14-18 days to process the first 90% of the more bioavailable fat
and muscle mass stores, and it is at that time when caloric needs rise
dramatically. This has little do with the amount of body fat or muscle
mass you have. It's just one of those physiological phenomena. So, Brian
needs 6k cal/day to maintain weight in a Triple Crown year. I mean, if you
are walking 30 to 40 miles a day, the level of energy is pretty
phenomenal, even if you are operating your body at maximum efficiency.

I also wear wool base layers, which over the long run (long days, long
mileage trips), because they are able to regulate your temp better (fact),
save calories (conjecture). That's my theory. Go ahead, laugh. I don't
blame ya. It does sound ridiculous.

Ryan



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Steve Sergeant
2003-12-29 23:18:39 UTC
Permalink
At 14:12 -0700 12/27/03, Ryan Jordan wrote:

[Deletia]
Post by Ryan Jordan
So, using the combination of maintaining excellent off-season
conditioning, packing high-fat, dense foods, monitoring my energy
expenditure on the trail by maintaining an exertion rate that optimizes
fat-burning, I can easily hike a 20 mile day in the mountains on 20 oz/day
2400 cal diet in the summer-fall. Three years ago I was packing 32 oz/day
and 3600 cals.
That's pretty amazing to me. If this were written by a less
well-known poster, I would dismiss this as empty boasting or
clueless-ness.

At 6'1" and 180 lbs., most of the calorie requirement calculators
I've used put my rest calorie requirements at a little above 1,800,
and my active requirements -- say for 8 hours per day of moderately
strenuous activity, would add another 2,800 calories to yield a total
requirement of 4,600.

Two data points: 1) I lost 10 pounds earlier this year on a 12-day
High Sierra trip carrying 35 oz. of food per day (including packaging
-- about 4,000 calories). My pack base weight on that trip was about
12 pounds including the Bearikade, and the total pack weight was 34
pounds starting out with food and 2 liters of water. We hiked 12 -
15 miles per day. 2) On a ten-day conventional heavy-weight
backpacking trip in Yosemite in 1982, I carried almost 80 pounds in
my pack starting out, including over 4 pounds of food per-person
per-day (including canned meat and lots of fresh cheese). We hiked
five to seven miles each day, and I neither lost nor gained. I
guess-timate I must have been eating about 5,500 calories per day.

I've eaten 8,000 calories per day before on ski tours and have come out hungry.

I think it's a worthwhile exercise for everyone to go through the
paces of doing the calculations for calorie requirements when
planning your meals for any trip longer than a long weekend.

A little guy like Ryan :-) might get by with 2,400 calories, but I
think that's likely to be too little for most of us weekend warriors.


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Tony
2003-12-27 21:25:05 UTC
Permalink
Hi Rick;

Most people have fat to spare these days and please don't take this as an insult
towards Ryan or anyone.
The back country has a tendency to trim the extra pounds off regardless of the
diet.
While I enjoy good food I don't relish the idea of preparing complicated concoctions on the trail.
I still seek easier but good foods to carry out into the back country.
Tony.

----- Original Message -----
From: Rick D.
To: BackpackingLight-***@public.gmane.org
Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2003 2:09 PM
Subject: [BackpackingLight] Re: GoLite Continuum Pack


I don't know how Ryan does it on so little food, considering he's
hiking in high country and in pretty severe conditions.

Brian Robinson notes that he had to average 6k calories/day to
maintain his weight on his triple-crown year. A thru-hiker who hits
the trail in shape simply cannot affort to lose weight. An office-
bound slug such as myself usually can :-)

Still, I was startled to find I'd lost 12 pounds on an 8-day trip
last September, because I'd thought we'd been eating well (estimated
3.5-4.5k calories/day). I think it was a combination of the tough
hiking, the high altitude (10-12k) and the cold weather. Living at
sea level where the summers are hot, it's alway tough to get
conditioned to hike in such "alien" conditions.

--Rick
Post by Bill Crawford
Ryan notes below that he takes about 2400 cal/day. I'm curious what others
find they need when hiking. On a trip this fall I consumed 3000 cal/day and
lost 1-2 pounds in 8 days of moderate hiking -- only ~ 10 miles per day
with lots of fishing thrown in.
Thanks.
Bill in Louisiana
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Rick D.
2003-12-26 21:44:43 UTC
Permalink
Definitely have to avoid bulky foods (goodbye French bread). I use
stuff sacks so it can morph into the available crannies. I'm not
sure my canister would even fit into the K38 and if it did, it
wouldn't leave enough room for my gear and clothing.

Don't know if that helps?

--Rick
Post by Andy Mytys
I just can't see how you guys get that much food into your packs.
Is there a special trick to how you pack your food, or you do just
toss it all into the same stuff sack and put that into the pack?
I find food is one of those items that takes up way more space
than
Post by Andy Mytys
it should. I find it easier to pack into a manageable space when I
have a hard and confining container, like a bear canister. Such a
canister allows me to really get things pushed to corners and
such.
Post by Andy Mytys
In a stuffsack, it is difficult to get that rigid and uniform
shape
Post by Andy Mytys
going such that the sack starts shifting all over the place.
Post by Yellow Jacket
I assume you can carry 2qts in the side pockets. Access to water
would be the limiting factor.
So you're going over the 2000 cubes?
These outside/side mesh pockets are fantastic, but I must admit that
it often seems that I am placing as much gear, if not more, into them
than I am into the main pack compartment itself.
Side/rear mesh pockets - tarp, stakes, bivy, ground sheet, water,
fuel, compass, TP, 1st aid kit, hygiene kit, LED light
Pack - sleeping bag, pad, thermal jacket, spare clothes, food,
cook
Post by Andy Mytys
pot, windscreen, stove, spoon
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Andy Mytys
2003-12-26 23:15:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rick D.
Definitely have to avoid bulky foods (goodbye French bread). I use
stuff sacks so it can morph into the available crannies. I'm not
sure my canister would even fit into the K38 and if it did, it
wouldn't leave enough room for my gear and clothing.
Don't know if that helps?
Well, it just starts to illustrate what I've been kind of aluding to
in these posts... that it's not the gear alone. Packing techique,
the types of food ingredients that are taken, and other "usage"
factors come into play with these small packs. This needs to be
stressed and, if we want readers to explore the potential of these
packs these skills, passed along.

I think we've pretty much got the weight thing taken care of. Now,
it becomes a space issue where just packing "less gear" won't
necessarally work as the answer.

Just HOW does one fit all the gear in. What I need 3200 cubes for
Ryan and others might be able to cram into 2000.

Am I carrying a 3800 cu/in pack because I really need it, or because
my packing is inefficient?

And yes, I do "nest" :)




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Bill Crawford
2003-12-27 15:25:13 UTC
Permalink
It surprised me how much room 8 days of food required when I got it all
ready to go this past September. But the way I packed it seems pretty
optimum in terms of utilizing the space in my GG Vapor Trail. Someone had
posted about water running down their cord suspending their food sack from a
tree. So I put all my food in a 30 gal trash can liner. I'd put my sleeping
bag in my Vapor Trail first, then take the food in the trash bag and squish
it into a tube shape and feed it down into my pack. A couple of good shakes
and it would conform to the shape of the pack and minimize the space
required.



I had a sil stuff sack to suspend the food in and the plastic bag kept my
food dry in considerable rain. I also liked the way I could lay the 30 gal
trash bag on the ground and open it up where I could see all the contents.
Plus, somewhere in my bear conscious mind I thought it was good to have my
food sitting on plastic vs. something more permeable on the ground.



Bill in Louisiana



_____

From: Andy Mytys [mailto:amytys-***@public.gmane.org]
Sent: Friday, December 26, 2003 2:48 PM
To: BackpackingLight-***@public.gmane.org
Subject: [BackpackingLight] Re: GoLite Continuum Pack
Post by Yellow Jacket
Is 2000 ci enough?
Yes, more than enough room for a ~12# base weight. Plus food for 3
4 nights.
I just can't see how you guys get that much food into your packs.

Is there a special trick to how you pack your food, or you do just
toss it all into the same stuff sack and put that into the pack?

I find food is one of those items that takes up way more space than
it should. I find it easier to pack into a manageable space when I
have a hard and confining container, like a bear canister. Such a
canister allows me to really get things pushed to corners and such.
In a stuffsack, it is difficult to get that rigid and uniform shape
going such that the sack starts shifting all over the place.










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Yellow Jacket
2003-12-29 01:38:37 UTC
Permalink
I know this thread has died down a bit, but I've been out the last couple of
days, so I'll respond to Andy's questions...
----- Original Message -----
Post by Andy Mytys
Post by Yellow Jacket
Yes, more than enough room for a ~12# base weight. Plus food for 3
4 nights.
I just can't see how you guys get that much food into your packs.
Is there a special trick to how you pack your food, or you do just
toss it all into the same stuff sack and put that into the pack?
I just put it all into the same stuff sack along with my pot, stove and
fuel. Most of my foods are not too bulky. Except when I take bagels.
Typically I have lots of small items that allow me to shape the bag a bit.
On my last trip I had (per day)...

1 qt of milk (really 1 cup of powdered milk)
3 breakfast bars (hiking/breaks)
2 power/candy bars (hiking/breaks)
1 bagel with a "slice" of that peanutbutter/"jelly" stuff on it (lunch
break)
1 "sleeve" of peanutbutter crackers (hiking/breaks)
1 pack of flavored instant potatoes with half a pack of salmon thrown in
1/4 cup olive oil
2 cookies

The cookies were destroyed by the end of the trip. So, I think I'll take
harder cookies on the next trip. Maybe gingersnaps?

I have no idea how many calories were in the above items. But it seemed to
be more than enough for me. In fact, I had a hard time eating the
potatoes/salmon/oil dinner. As I was just too stuffed at the end of the
day. I'll probably leave the salmon behind on the next trip. There is
enough protein in the other stuff that I don't need to worry about it too
much on a short trip (say 3-5 20 mile days).

Maybe if I was out for a longer trip, I might discover that I'm not bringing
enough. But, to have the chance to take a long trip (7+ days) is really
more of a fantasy for me.
Post by Andy Mytys
I find food is one of those items that takes up way more space than
it should.
Ditto. I just toss it all into the same stuff sack. Which results in
smashed cookies. Guess I need to try something else on the next trip.
Post by Andy Mytys
Post by Yellow Jacket
I assume you can carry 2qts in the side pockets. Access to water
would be the limiting factor.
So you're going over the 2000 cubes?
I guess. I assumed that I could "still use" the two bottle holders on the
Continuum as part of this challenge.<g> Though, 2L of water only takes,
well, 2 liters of space.<g>
Post by Andy Mytys
These outside/side mesh pockets are fantastic, but I must admit that
it often seems that I am placing as much gear, if not more, into them
than I am into the main pack compartment itself.
Side/rear mesh pockets - tarp, stakes, bivy, ground sheet, water,
fuel, compass, TP, 1st aid kit, hygiene kit, LED light
I agree a couple of small pockets are nice for these little items. I could
still put these items into small stuff sacks (I have two small WP stuff
sacks that came with my rainshield jacket/pants I use for such items) and
throw them into the main bag (that's what I have to do with my Katahdin).
However, if I were to use a Continuum, I would probably put these items into
the 3 small pockets it provides (top lid, and the two front pockets). This
would clear up more space for food (or a less compresses bag) in the main
compartment!!

Yellow Jacket



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sawwhetowl
2003-12-25 18:30:36 UTC
Permalink
Well said!

Merry Christmas... Happy Hanukkah to all!
Post by Aaron
The point of my post was not "I wouldn't buy this pack." Replying to
a post that offers an assessment or opinion about a piece of gear
with "so don't buy the thing" seems pointless to me. You could
offer
Post by Aaron
that response to any review or opinion.
The purpose of this site is to compare and discuss hiking gear. The
point of my post was to contrast two packs with similar suspension
systems having nearly equal weight but HUGELY disparate volume
capacities. The continuum may very well be a good climbing pack, but
it's ALSO being marketed (in part) as appropriate for "4 season"
backpacking (not specifically ultralight). My point was (and is)
that it's not an appropriate pack for ANYONE intending to use it for
BACKPACKING (ultralight or otherwise) unless they are willing to go
to extraordinary measures to reduce their gear volume. That's it.
Product loyalty to Golite is irrelevant to this discussion.
Whether
Post by Aaron
or not they "get it right the first time" is also irrelevant. The
point is to help people decide whether or not to pay good money for
the pack for their intended use. I didn't say that Golite produces a
bad product. I own lots of Golite gear. IMHO this particular pack
line is already being out-gunned by other packs already on the
market and my simple point is that this particular pack is not a
viable, competitive product for backpacking, as outlined in Kim's
post.
Aaron
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Tony
2003-12-25 17:43:20 UTC
Permalink
I own a Golite pack and like it.
No one I think was slamming Golite here.
There was just talk about their new pack.
Their products are very good ones.
Tony.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jon Bongiorno
To: BackpackingLight-***@public.gmane.org
Sent: Thursday, December 25, 2003 9:06 AM
Subject: Re: [BackpackingLight] Re: GoLite Continuum Pack


So don't buy the thing!

GoLite is still going to make packs for ULTAlighters. They're just trying to expand their product line. I'm sure over time they'll get the size issue figured out. Just because it isn't perfect the first time out, that's OK. GoLite makes a great product. I don't think the dementions are right yet either but, give them time. Besides, IF you mountaineer at all, this might be a GREAT pack for single day more technical summits. small size, light weight, but still able to carry some weight. The bottom line here is It's not marketed as an Ultralight Backpack. So don't go out and buy it, if you don't think it will work for YOU!

Have a Merry Christmas EVERYONE.

Jon
----- Original Message -----
From: Aaron
To: BackpackingLight-***@public.gmane.org
Sent: Thursday, December 25, 2003 5:56 AM
Subject: [BackpackingLight] Re: GoLite Continuum Pack


Granite Gear Vapor Trail Pack: 3,600 CI , 2lb 4oz; $145.00 (list)
GoLite Continuum Pack: 2,050 CI, 2lb 4 oz; $159.00 (list)

I agree that comfort is a significant concern when evaluating a
pack, and that simple weight/volume ratios are not the total
concern. Above 25 lbs, frameless packs uniformly start to suffer in
the comfort department. I'm not a pack manufacturer but I've
personally tried (and re-sold) more than 50 different packs over 20
years of hiking. It doesn't make me an expert, it just documents my
experience (and my ridiculous gear obsession :-0 )

With all due respect to Kim's authority, I still maintain that 2,050
CI (32 L) main pack compartment volume is too small to be a viable
backpack for most hikers (especially "transition" hikers going
from "regular" to "ultralight"), even for a weekend trip in the
summer. Some people might be able or willing to compress their
sleeping bag down far enough to make room for the rest of the gear,
but that's neither desirable nor necessary.

Unless one is carrying dense, heavy gear (ie. climbing rope, rock
cams, etc), one is going to have a very difficult time getting their
minimum gear to fit inside a 2,000 CI pack, let alone the 30 lbs the
framesheet is designed to support. The Granite Gear pack menitoned
above is running a minimum of 60 L and is basically the same weight
as the small end of the Golite unlimited series. I haven't tried on
the Continuum for comfort, but I have a hard time believing that it
could be MORE comfortable that the GG model. Some may disagree with
me, but I think Golite needs to return to the drawing board on this
one if the target customer is a backpacker rather than a climber.

Aaron




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Tony
2003-12-25 17:40:37 UTC
Permalink
The Golite breeze pack has a volume of 3950 while the new continuum
is 2600 and weighs more?
I don't see the advantages at all especialy when the Golite trek
has a volume 5950 and weighs about the same?
I suspect that the suspension system is heavier and they have sacraficed
volume to reduce the packs weight.
Merry Christmas.
Tony.





-----Original Message -----
From: Aaron
To: BackpackingLight-***@public.gmane.org
Sent: Thursday, December 25, 2003 7:56 AM
Subject: [BackpackingLight] Re: GoLite Continuum Pack


Granite Gear Vapor Trail Pack: 3,600 CI , 2lb 4oz; $145.00 (list)
GoLite Continuum Pack: 2,050 CI, 2lb 4 oz; $159.00 (list)

I agree that comfort is a significant concern when evaluating a
pack, and that simple weight/volume ratios are not the total
concern. Above 25 lbs, frameless packs uniformly start to suffer in
the comfort department. I'm not a pack manufacturer but I've
personally tried (and re-sold) more than 50 different packs over 20
years of hiking. It doesn't make me an expert, it just documents my
experience (and my ridiculous gear obsession :-0 )

With all due respect to Kim's authority, I still maintain that 2,050
CI (32 L) main pack compartment volume is too small to be a viable
backpack for most hikers (especially "transition" hikers going
from "regular" to "ultralight"), even for a weekend trip in the
summer. Some people might be able or willing to compress their
sleeping bag down far enough to make room for the rest of the gear,
but that's neither desirable nor necessary.

Unless one is carrying dense, heavy gear (ie. climbing rope, rock
cams, etc), one is going to have a very difficult time getting their
minimum gear to fit inside a 2,000 CI pack, let alone the 30 lbs the
framesheet is designed to support. The Granite Gear pack menitoned
above is running a minimum of 60 L and is basically the same weight
as the small end of the Golite unlimited series. I haven't tried on
the Continuum for comfort, but I have a hard time believing that it
could be MORE comfortable that the GG model. Some may disagree with
me, but I think Golite needs to return to the drawing board on this
one if the target customer is a backpacker rather than a climber.

Aaron
Post by Kim Coupounas
Hi! And happy holidays! In response to Cerebus' email below, I
thought I
Post by Kim Coupounas
should probably address GoLite's continuing commitment to
ultralighters.
Post by Kim Coupounas
The "Unlimited" series of packs that we just introduced, including the 40
liter, 2lb 4oz Continuum pack mentioned below, were introduced for one sole
reason: to address the literally hundreds of requests we receive from
customers who desperately want to "go lite" but they are not
willing to jump
Post by Kim Coupounas
all the way to one of our frame-less, top-loading sub-2 pound
ultra-lite
Post by Kim Coupounas
packs.
These people are doing their best to lighten up the big items but until they
are willing to truly make the leap, but carrying their mid-range loads that
they're still attached to in ultra-lite packs is frankly
uncomfortable (and
Post by Kim Coupounas
turns them off to the whole concept of going lite). We spent
literally two
Post by Kim Coupounas
years trying to figure out how to build a lightweight pack that had the
structural integrity to carry heavier loads, for both people who are in
transition as well as for those who are going lite in the winter. We did it
by utilizing a thermomolded polystyrene framesheet (yep, the same stuff that
your mail carrier's mail bucket is made out of) with aluminum
dowels. We
Post by Kim Coupounas
came to this solution after a slew of other interesting but failed
prototypes, using everything from titanium to sundry sorts of
plastics. I
Post by Kim Coupounas
think we got it right in the new packs and they've been getting darned good
reviews from our customers and testers.
We want to help everybody to go lite, not just the folks who have already
figured out how to get to the edge. While we continue to introduce what I
consider some of the most innovative and lightest packs on the
market to
Post by Kim Coupounas
meet the demand of informed readers like you guys (the Gust,
Breeze, Dawn,
Post by Kim Coupounas
Jam, Speed, Team, Race, and Trek packs - plus many more to come in future
seasons), we also want to provide a bridge for people wanting to go lighter
but who don't know how to make it all the way to those packs. The Unlimited
packs (which were designed for lighweight four season backpacking) have an
ultra-lite framesheet built in, meaning that they can carry far heavier
loads comfortably while the packs themselves are really still quite
lightweight (all well under 3 pounds for 50L, 40L, and 30L packs). These
packs may not be the right packs for the ultra-litest among the BPL
readership, but they are ideal for someone wanting to from a pack that
weighs 6 or 7 pounds by itself to a better way --i.e., a 2.5 lb pack.
I hope that makes sense, and while I'm not putting this forth as some sort
of justification, I just wanted you guys to know that GoLite
continues to be
Post by Kim Coupounas
committed to ultra-lite. We're also committed to lite, and we want to do
what we can to build a bridge for people to come our way.
Happy holidays to all!
Kim
GoLite
Boulder, Colorado
Message: 13
Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2003 16:04:44 -0000
Subject: Re: Go-Lite Continuum Pack
Little more than 2,000 CI (+ 400 in pockets) and 2 lb 4 oz?! That
sounds like specs for a cordura day pack, not a backpack from
an "ultralight" company.
GoLite seems to be targeting climbers and runners more and more. I
have to wonder how much longer they will continue to serve the
needs
Post by Kim Coupounas
of ultralighters.
-- Cerebus
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dspellman2002
2003-12-25 17:58:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Aaron
Granite Gear Vapor Trail Pack: 3,600 CI , 2lb 4oz; $145.00 (list)
GoLite Continuum Pack: 2,050 CI, 2lb 4 oz; $159.00 (list)
With all due respect to Kim's authority, I still maintain that
2,050
Post by Aaron
CI (32 L) main pack compartment volume is too small to be a viable
backpack for most hikers (especially "transition" hikers going
from "regular" to "ultralight"), even for a weekend trip in the
summer.
Might be too small for "transition" hikers, but there are folks who
are packing with a pretty small volume (and relatively high density)
out there. If you don't mind squooching your Arc Alpinist up real
small, I'm willing to bet you can get a very nice weekend in a 2000
ci pack. I've got one (some Ultimate Directions thing that was on
sale a couple of years back) that would make a good tester. I'll poke
at it and see what I can get in there.

Ultimately, I think that the needs of the hiker and the intention of
the pack have to meet in order to have a happy camper (<G>),and if
you can hike successfully with that size pack, go for it.

david



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Ron Moak
2003-12-27 16:39:29 UTC
Permalink
I'd appreciate information about: How much does silnylon suitable for
making a homemade tent cost? Where could I buy it. <<


You can get Silicone Nylon in small quantities from:

Quest Outfitters: - http://www.questoutfitters.com/
Outdoor Wilderness Fabrics - http://www.owfinc.com/
Thru-hiker.com - http://www.thru-hiker.com


-Ron





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Marc Pfenning
2003-12-28 01:33:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul L. Sailer
How much does silnylon suitable for making a homemade tent cost?
Where could I buy it.
1.1 oz silnylon is available from Outdoor Wilderness Fabrics,
http://www.owfinc.com/ in several colors, for $8.20/yd for first
quality, and $5.90/yd for seconds, which works fine. Marc

---I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous.


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